Ramsay should not have existed in the show
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vjfoogie — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 09:25 AM)
I would say the main difference was the great acting by Joffery's actor. I'm assuming you are making a kid joke, so I can only rubuttal with.if you are old as dirt and insulting people you think are kids online, you are a loser haha.
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otter — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 04:20 PM)
Joffrey was the perfect love-to-hate-him villain character, and IMHO not just because the kid who played him was so damn good.
Joffrey was intrinsically both very weak and very strong - that is, he was the king of Westeros whose word was law and who could have you killed or mutilated on a whim but he was also a whiny little kid who could be taken down with a good bitchslap. So every time he did something horrible, there was this awful tension, where you wondered if THIS time he'd gone to far, and someone would react by spanking some sense into him. Tyrion actually did bitchslap him into place a couple of times and it worked, so the two possibilities were always there. Brilliant writing, IMHO.
Now Ramsay didn't have anything like that, he was just another horrible gross disgusting sadist. Now I admit he went out in spectacular fashion, which made up for a lot, while Joffrey's death was oddly unsatisfying. Joffrey just died, he didn't learn his lesson, while Ramsay actually did.
Edit: Roose was played by a marvelously cool actor, but he wasn't as brilliantly written as Joffrey. If he'd been the chief villain he'd be kind of cool, but he'd just be a smart guy who opposed the Starks, and who was no worse to Sansa and Theon than any other brutal Lord of Westeros.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
vjfoogie — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 06:43 PM)
In the books Ramsey has a bit more depth. Roose is a lot better in the books, but damn his actor was perfectly casted. Joffery was definitely a better villain, but I'm just saying I really don't understand the hate for Ramsey. I hated his guts, so he fulfilled his role.
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otter — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 10:21 PM)
But did you love to hate him? When Ramsay came of the screen, did you feel in horror and delight, wondering what horrible or stupid or unintentionally hilarious thing he's do next?
Thats what made Joffrey such a great villain, Ramsey just wasn't as entertaining, even if he did a good job of imperiling other characters. The guy who played Roose was excellent, but he just wouldn't have been a great solo villain, he just wasn't as interesting as Joffrey or Littlefinger.
Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it! -
JJdaPK — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 09:21 AM)
Roose is a more compelling villain than Ramsay, but I think the problem with Ramsay was just that he was a bit too one note. He could have still been a sadistic bastard, but he could have been given some sort of layers or inner conflict. We don't really get why he loves to torture people and why he gets so much pleasure from it. A little more psychological insight would have gone a long way.
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vjfoogie — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 06:44 PM)
He felt that flaying people made him more of a Bolton. Before he was just a bastard trying to earn the respect of his father. He thought that by doing what is on his father's banners he would earn his respect, hence all the flaying he did.
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codyhoskins — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 10:08 AM)
Ramsay was too sloppy and reckless and his only purpose on the show was to be a source of discomfort and horror in place of Joffrey that couldn't be reasoned with and wasn't conflicted between any choices of evils like all the other ill-doers on the shows because all he cared about was evil. All the time GRR Martin and D&D kept denying from the start of the series that it wouldn't have any villains and they made Ramsay altogether villainous like all those other typical villains who always let their bloodlust and arrogance get the better of them until they beep up. I guess they just wanted someone for once who most of the characters in Westeros could agree on killing for someone who had no regard for human life just like the WW don't.
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vjfoogie — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 10:02 AM)
He convinced Theon to burn the farm boys, and I think his treatment of "Arya" will be what makes him lose the battle. I think the northern men will turn on Ramsey because they believe she is Arya. I think that would be better than having the Vale save Jon. Plus it would mean the phrase "the north remembers" actually means something.
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Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 10:07 AM)
besides being a cartoonish waste of page space.
There's a lot of this in the books. Strong Belwas, Euron Greyjoy, Mance Rayder, Patchface, That fat guy who buys Tyrion, Vargo Hoat and most of the Brave Companions
GRRM is all but subtle.
Long may she reign
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oshelley55 — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 12:28 PM)
But I like the scenes between Roose and Ramsay. Those are Ramsay's best scenes, and I think they're good scenes for Roose as well.
That the writers chose to use Ramsay in the contrived Sansa-at-Winterfell plot and chose to kill off Roose too soon, too easily and with no consequences is more the problem, not Ramsay being in the show. -
TheFirstStormAndTheLast — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 08:24 PM)
If they were going to kill off Roose so soon then they really should've had Stannis kill him at the battle for Winterfell. Ramsey could've disobeyed orders intentionally and left Roose overwhelmed. That way he still would've died as a result of his failure as a father and would've got to throw down with Stannis also giving Stannis a much better death by killing a major villain before going himself.
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FlayedMan — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 10:53 PM)
^I would have definitely liked Roose to participate in the battle. A pre-battle parlay convo between Roose and Stannis would have been AMAZING but I wouldn't have wanted Stannis to be the one to kill him. It either had to be a Stark like Sansa or Ramsay.
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Wick_Conflue74 — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 02:43 AM)
In a perfect world Mads Mikkelsen would be Roose Bolton and he would be a prominent villain for most of the series, with Ramsay merely just a psychotic underling of his. But I guess they wanted to big up Ramsay as like an evil counterpart to Jon.
Una! -
Wick_Conflue74 — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 09:37 AM)
Don't get me wrong I love McElhatton's performance, but I think Mikkelsen would be better if Roose was a major character. I mean he'd basically be Hannibal again, with the psychotic glee in his eyes when playing with people, and hiding his true barbarity under a dignified exterior.
Una!
