If a bastard got married, would his children carry his bastard name
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Prascovia — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 03:36 PM)
Thank you for your answer, but I was also wondering about the legitimate children of bastards, let's say a sand bastard married a woman in the North and she gave birth to a son who by no account was born outside The wedlock, would the boy be named a snow? And given a bastard name eventhoug he isn't technically a bastard?
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CheruthCutestory — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 03:44 PM)
You'd think so. But then after 8,000 years give or take there would a sh!t ton of Snows and Stones etc. who aren't bastards. Even if only a small fraction of them get married over thousands of years that would really add up. The whole distinction would have completely lost meaning by now. And the stigma would be almost gone. Because no one can know for sure if it means you are a bastard.
Like how fitz doesn't mean anything special now. If my last name is Fitzpatrick it doesn't mean I'm the son of someone named Patrick. And it certainly doesn't mean I'm a royal bastard. No one would even make that connection now.
So I guess not?
I don't know.
There are cases where legitimate children take the mother's name in show (Mormonts for example) but it's not clear what the dad situation is there.
No wonder Jesus quit carpentry. It's so much harder than talking on a donkey. -
yoav-07984 — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 05:09 PM)
In Westeros the houses have heirarchy and when marruages occur the lower house's partner takes the name of the higher house, which is the case of Lyanna Mormont.
The girl takes the man's name only if the houses are the same rank, such as two great houses (Catelyn went from Tully to Stark) -
CheruthCutestory — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 08:26 AM)
No that's not true. Jaime's aunt, Genna, married a Frey. And the Freys are well below the Lannisters. So much so that Tywin was furious at his father for arranging that marraige. But she was Genna Frey.
Rhaelle Targaryen married a Baratheon. She was a royal princess so that was below her. But her descendants were all named Baratheon.
Targ women have also married Martells and used the name Martell.
No wonder Jesus quit carpentry. It's so much harder than talking on a donkey. -
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CheruthCutestory — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 06:55 PM)
It is. But over 8,000 years that's a freaking lot of people. Even assume the practice has only been around for a couple of thousand years. And it's only the small percent of nobles. THat's still a lot of kids.
And then some of them have kids. And their kids have kids. And their kids have kids.
That's a lot of Stones and Snows two thousand years later.
No wonder Jesus quit carpentry. It's so much harder than talking on a donkey. -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 07:44 PM)
There is no answer to that question. The invention of an imposed generic name for bastards is just another stupid impractical fantasy from that underdog lover.
Long may she reign
http://i.imgur.com/BxJJSJZ.jpg -
Wolf_boi — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 02:28 AM)
In most cases they'd keep the surname but in some cases the child may choose to change it.
Source:
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2999/
(third paragraph from the end)
Note as well the special naming of bastards only applies to high-born families not common folk.
All this is just book lore of course. With the show we don't actually know which things are still canon unless specified in the show itself or the HBO website. -
InglouriousSister — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 03:03 AM)
I assume if who said bastard married were a woman of very high birth they would get her name, such as the Mormonts like Lyanna and her sisters. But if not, they'd have no name at all, like Gendry. There are plenty of no-name characters, I don't think Davos or Bronn had family names when they were born either.
Do you even know what honor is?- A horse.
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Prascovia — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 05:50 AM)
Thank you guys , here I think I found the answer from the article that wolf shared
You ask about names. Several different questions here. Maege Mormont is called Mormont because no one knows her husband's name, or even if she has one. There is all the talk that she beds with a bear. She prefers to keep her own counsel. Most of the ladies of Westeros do change their names when they wed, although usage varies. If the wife's family is significantly higher born than the husband's, she may use his name little, if at all. The Dornish have their own customs. The full surname of the ruling house of Dorne is Nymeros Martell, and the ruling pricesses keep that in its female form. They do not take the name of their consorts.
Bastard names are given only to bastards with at least one parent of high birth. So the bastard child of two peasants would have no surname at all.
Thus a bastard name like "Snow" or "Rivers" is simultaneously a stigma and a mark of distinction. The whole thing with bastard names is custom, not law.
The highborn parent can bestow the usual name, a new one of his/her own devising, or none at all. Most legitimate sons of bastards keep the bastard name, but there are cases where a later generation fiddles with it to remove the taint. There's one such case that you will meet in the next book, a minor character descended from a Waters (a bastard name along the shores of Blackwater Bay) whose great grandfather changed the name to Longwaters for just that reason.
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Wolf_boi — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 06:58 AM)
On the descendants I think it must be the case that a majority of bloodlines will eventually change the name, otherwise it's like what Cheruth said where you'd just end up with a ridiculous number of people called Snow/Rivers/whatever.
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CheruthCutestory — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 08:40 AM)
And the name wouldn't have stigma anymore because after a couple of thousand years (nevermind 8,0000) the majority of people named Snow would be legitimate.
No wonder Jesus quit carpentry. It's so much harder than talking on a donkey. -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 08:55 AM)
The idea of giving bastards of noble houses a generic name never made any practical sense in the first place. It is just one of those many silly things GRRM invented as a stigma in a hierarchical society he meant to criticise.
A bastard, a dwarf and a girl sold to a man, these are his heroes and they are assisted in their adventures by all sorts of misfits because nothing else can be seen as a protagonist in his compassionately apologetic mind.
Long may she reign
http://i.imgur.com/BxJJSJZ.jpg
