Why a new Helen
-
-
angelofvic — 18 years ago(September 22, 2007 02:40 PM)
I don't like the new one at all. Complete 180 degrees from the old one. Why do that to an already-established character?
If they want Lynley to have a love interest, introduce a completely new person. They don't have to follow the novels.
Anyway, if somehow the series continues, I hope they either dispense with Helen altogether, or get an actress that is as wistful and dreamy and sensitive and poetic and pensive as the old Helen was.
. . . . . . . . -
angelofvic — 18 years ago(September 24, 2007 09:01 PM)
Really? I wonder how she was different from the novels, and whether the new one is any more like her?
I don't see much chemistry between the new one and Parker, but that may be because they are pretending they have all this shared history when in fact she's a substitute actress. Plus, I started disliking her when I learned she was supposed to be Helen before that, I gave her the benefit of the doubt.
She doesn't seem very likeable or romantic or vulnerable, or someone who could be as emotional as Lynley.
But again, this is all talk in the dark, if the series really is over. Maybe like someone said, Granada TV could pick it up.
But I
still
don't like the new Helen and I think it would take a lot to get me to like her like Parker stop acting like she's the bee's knees we haven't even gotten to know her yet!
. . . . . . . . -
maryborrege — 18 years ago(September 25, 2007 08:36 PM)
(Warning. Previous eposode spoiler below.)
How could anyone "like" the old Helen? She was sulky, surly and insensitive to the needs of anyone save herself. As it happened her husband lost their baby too. Thanks to self absorbed Helen he not only lost his child but his wife too and in one feld swoop. Helen just turned tail and took off without notice. Some love. Lynley didn't lose much. His needy attachment to a woman like Helen is a bit masochistic.
In the book Helen was not quite the sourpuss as depicted in the series. (She was an interior decorator, not in forensics.) The catch was Helen and Lynley were both indecisive about the other and could never get their act together as a couple. Helen resented her husband's work, but then why marry a detective?
As a couple Lynley and Helen weren't too bright. It became an irritant for many readers. All things consideredthe new Helen is a breath of fresh air.
At least so far.
If Lynley has been canceled it will be missed. It wasn't as well written as Rumpole of the Bailey, the early Inspector Dalglish, or Morse, but it was better than most of the cheaply produced stuff they are putting on TV today. -
Virginiana — 18 years ago(November 08, 2007 08:00 PM)
In the book Helen was not quite the sourpuss as depicted in the series.(She was an interior decorator, not in forensics.)
Ummm not even
close
.
In the books, Helen is LADY Helen Clyde, daughter of an earl and, as such, from Lynley's own social class. She has inherited money and therefore does not need to work. When we first meet her she is rather spoiled and self-centered, very interested in fashion (has a passion for high-heeled shoes which she wears no matter how much they hurt her feet) and travels a good deal, seeming to spend a lot of her time engaging in the aimless round of pleasure of the wealthy socialite. Elizabeth George has described her character as an "ageing It Girl", an expression which doesn't translate well to the US but which any Brit will understand. Beneath her flightiness, though, Helen proves in the very first novel that she has a good heart and cares about others, regardless of their social class.
As the series moves on Helen gets a bit more serious she starts working part-time as an assistant to Simon St. James, Lynley's best friend and a leading forensic pathologist. Her work falls in the category of clerical help/lab assistant, though, not trained scientific analyst. She still remains lovably flighty and indecisive, though there's a memorable scene in one book where she can't figure out how to operate a microwave.
She is somewhat reluctant to marry Tommy, whose moodiness can be unnerving and because she fears losing her identity as his wife, and after she does she has major identity crisis when she tries to select wallpaper to redecorate some rooms in their London house. She feels inadequate to the task of committing to a decision, unsure of her own taste. Ergo, she is not not NOT an interior decorator!
But I agree with you that Helen in the novels is far from a sourpuss. She's flighty, indecisive, and spoiled, sure, but she's also very loving and patient with Tommy's faults. The way she's been depicted in the TV shows the confident professional scientists is a million miles from the Lady Helen of the books. No wonder Elizabeth George disliked the portrayal! -
beat — 17 years ago(September 27, 2008 12:46 PM)
How could anyone "like" the old Helen? She was sulky, surly and insensitive to the needs of anyone save herself.
you're right: helen was really annoying, i couldn't stand her. but the actress was perfect, and that's why the 2nd helen was a really bad choice, she just didn't have anything to do with the first one. really odd choice.
-
jojo-acapulco — 14 years ago(December 06, 2011 02:10 PM)
I think they had to find a new Helen because the old Helen was the least appealing character in this or almost any other show. I always wondered why Lynley was attracted to a bitchy neurotic self-absorbed psychologist when the far more appealing Havers was right there at his side.
In the books, Helen is a pleasant, elegant, and very attractive woman who fit Lynley's life style much better than Havers could, and the thing made sense.
The departure of the old Helen is, for me, a breath of fresh air in a series that was getting moldy. -
Moscoso1967 — 12 years ago(February 22, 2014 04:27 PM)
I agree with many posters here, Helen as played by Lesley Vickerage was indeed miserable and whiny and IMO neither beautiful nor particularly feminine (as someone had claimed). I think she's one of the most annoying characters in a British crime/drama series I've ever seen. She and the whole annoying, almost soap-opera like drama about Lynley's and Helen's relationship is the main reason which spoiled this series for me and why I prefer other shows like "Lewis" or "Inspector George Gently". Compared to Vickerage's Helen I even prefer Joyce Barnaby by a mile.
I couldn't stand her right from the very first episode she was in and it never seemed convincing and especially not understandable why Lynley was so besotted with her as she had absolutely nothing going for her.
There are/were more believable romances and appealing love-interests, like Lewis and Laura Hobson (they really got a great chemistry, plus IMHO Holman is a better actress than Vickerage), Sam Tyler and Annie in "Life On Mars" or Richard and Camille in "Death in Paradise" (what a pity Ben Miller quit the show). -
tedtunes — 18 years ago(October 24, 2007 09:36 AM)
Funny you should say that about the new hair coor - I said to my friend who's also a big fan - Why on earth couldn't they at least have got the new Helen to darken her hair - the old Helen was very dark with severe short hair, this one's nearly blond with long pretty hair - I sometimes wonder who's running things on these series, really I do!
-
zarembazwoman — 18 years ago(November 08, 2007 04:47 PM)
Beautiful???? I thought she was homely, sour and dour. I never could understand why the Lynley character was so mad about her. I couldn't stand her. I liked the new Helen, so I was devastated when she was killed.
-
wimsattm — 17 years ago(May 19, 2008 03:10 PM)
Lesley Vickerage was such an awful actress that I was actually glad to see her leave the series. The only worse actor in the series is Nathaniel Parker, whom a reviewer in a British newspaper calls 'Television's most turgid detective.'
-
trpdean — 17 years ago(May 18, 2008 04:33 AM)
I don't want to be unkind about the actress, but I disagree, angelofvic, quite honestly I find the old Helen truly ugly. I'm watching the series now - from start to finish (by renting the DVDs) and am just amazed at this Helen. No, I haven't read the books which may explain why Lynley chose someone who so dislikes him, is so neurotic, and is so ugly - but from the television programs, it doesn't make sense.
-
wireshock — 18 years ago(September 30, 2007 01:41 PM)
Why they changed actresses is unknown (to us) and there is no "official" word that I know of. It APPEARED that they had simply written the character out of the series. A number of episodes followed Vickerage's last appearance in which "Tommy" was distraught about the state of his marriage, but given his other problems (like practically being thrown out of the force) it largely seemed the plots had moved on. When she returned in "Natural Causes" they pretty much glossed over her selfish disappearance, and Tommy greets her back as if he hadn't suffered at all.
My guess is that Vickerage decided not to continue and was thus "written out" of subsequent episodes. This would explain why it was never announced she had leftthey may have hoped they would eventually be able to get her back after a season or so. Having the couple continue to be estranged was therefore a workable solutionuntil Elizabeth George gave Helen a more significant "fate" in one of her novels.
That is why I think they brought the character back, so they could sync it back up with the books. That is what they essentially have done, for those who've seen more recent episodes which have yet to air in the U.S. But doing that only meant, without giving everything away, that THIS new Helen is destined to disappear from the series anyways. So why bother? Perhaps because the BBC get another dramatic episode ending (which EVERY episode seems to demand these days!) out of the character
As for the Vickerage characterization, it is true that Elizabeth George found it appalling, but the relationship between Helen and Tommy in the BBC series was the BEST thingapart from the Havers/Lynley tensions, of courseabout it. Both Vickerage and Parker played deeply flawed characters; watching them eat away at each other was the MAIN plotline of the series. That's why most viewers find the new Helen, who lacks the edgy angst of the old one, so lackluster and disappointing.
At least the boring replacement isn't the MAIN character, which is how I feel about Martin Shaw as the "new" Dalgliesh. Sheesh! What a boring Dalgliesh! Losing Roy Marsden was like losing Connery as Bond. He had DEFINED the role. -
nastyrambova123 — 18 years ago(October 02, 2007 02:47 PM)
I personally did NOT like the "old" Helen, as played by Leslie Vickerage. She really was NOT like the "Helen" in the novels, and there was something about her portrayal of "Helen" that was really unlikable, and personally, I did not care for Helen and Tommy's relationship I believe that here in the states the programs are behind as shown in the UK, so I do not know the fate of the new storyline. All the problems aside, and with that said, this "new Helen" is even more strange because she seems to have come back into Tommy's life with a "happy-go-lucky" attitude and is very open to re-kindling her marriage. That was part of the problems within their relationship, thoughthe inability to commit; the disappointmentsthis "new" Helen seems like a totally different person and she doesn't seem suitable for Tommy, either. The "Helen" storyline should be written outfrankly, I would like to see Linley and Havers have a go! I'm interested to see where the storyline is going, anywayI like Havers and would like to see her have a life.
And as for Martin Shaw in the "Dalgliesh" roleI could not agree more with the previous postRoy Marsden IS Dalgliesh and Shaw's portrayal is almost like a totally different character. Anyway, I thought P.D. James was going to get Cordelia Gray and Adam Dalgliesh "together"!!! What a pair those two would make! I mean, even my kids liked the original Dalgliesh, Marsdenwhen your kids like something or someone, that usually says it all!
Kat Ramone -
ebhead — 18 years ago(October 08, 2007 07:33 PM)
They've finally just begun showing the newest series (last night here in Tucson, AZ, USA). I was so thrilled that it was back on. I watch it for Nathaniel as he's so amazingly gorgeous. They have him looking even "hipper" now. they showed two here last night, but out of order, so instead of picking up where the last season left off, they began with him already being friends with Helen again. they spoke of it before showing her, so I was shocked to see that new lady, who neither looks, sounds, nor acts like Helen. As disappointed as I am that it's not the old Helen, I could accept her potentially IF:
- she were as pretty as Helen. I'm glad if Lynley can look beyond looks, but part of why he was attracted to Helen, was presumably her looks. This new one is so unattractive, that I don't see him going for her. Even her voice is annoying, as Helen. But even still I could probably accept her if
- she acted like the old Helen. At least on May to December the new Zoe acted like the old one, well mostly anyway. as you all have pointed out this new Helen acts nothing like the old one.
I have not read the novels. I do believe those of you who have though. so, the idea that the writers are trying to match up the novels with the show makes sense, but why start now? How can they expect us to accept that Helen would act the way on the show that the new Helen does? It's just too unbelievable and that's the nail in the new helen's coffin, in my opinion.
I still love him though and I like his relationship with Havers, so I'll keep watching for as long as it's still on.
-
Atomica00 — 18 years ago(October 14, 2007 08:26 PM)
Wow, you are an arse and VERY superficial. I was really enjoying reading this thread because of everyones mature analysis of the 2 Helens in terms of how the actress' have portrayed them, but you had to ruin that.
- "she were as pretty as Helen. I'm glad if Lynley can look beyond looks, but part of why he was attracted to Helen, was presumably her looks. This new one is so unattractive, that I don't see him going for her. Even her voice is annoying, as Helen. But even still I could probably accept her if"
What the hell does the new Helen's look and voice have to do with the actual character? That is a stupid and childish point. I personally didn't like the 1st Helen because of how she behaved during the baby arc. She didn't give the man a chance and I really doubted (and hoped) they would get back together. The 2nd Helen is a much happier person and I like how she's actually made me give a fig if they get back together. Their chemistry isn't as strong as compared to the 1st Helen, but apples and oranges. - "she acted like the old Helen. At least on May to December the new Zoe acted like the old one, well mostly anyway. as you all have pointed out this new Helen acts nothing like the old one."
Has it occured to you that if she acted like the old Helen, people would complain that she's unoriginal and copying the original actress? Or that maybe the producers told her to portray Helen that way? If it's true what another poster said about George (author) not liking the original portrayal of Helen, that could be a sway for the producers to change her up.
Hoenstly? If you really find her unattractive and annoying, stop watching.
- "she were as pretty as Helen. I'm glad if Lynley can look beyond looks, but part of why he was attracted to Helen, was presumably her looks. This new one is so unattractive, that I don't see him going for her. Even her voice is annoying, as Helen. But even still I could probably accept her if"
-
angelofvic — 18 years ago(October 15, 2007 02:22 AM)
Well, in fact the old Helen was quite beautiful and slim and feminine, the "glamour/fashion" profile, as they say in the business, and could have been a runway model; whereas the new Helen has a very boxy face, mannish mannerisms, and is fairly matronly. No need to get up in arms about the poster above stating the obvious. I'm sure she or he is not the only person who missed the beauty and femininity of the old Helen.
. . . . . . . . -
Brennan-8 — 18 years ago(October 15, 2007 08:18 AM)
The new Helen is much more beautiful and warm, and seemed to actually like Lynley, whereas the old Helen I thought was just a total shrew. It was sad & puzzling to watch Lynley grovel to such a cold and bitchy woman who couldn't have cared less for him, IMO.