How can an adult look like a child?
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juliannekalas — 12 years ago(August 09, 2013 02:01 PM)
I KNOW my first thought was SOMEONE was molested as a child! some people have the dirtiest minds, i thought it was a cute story.
Anyway, I have a story to knock yours out the water- my dad had to bathe me when I was 17!!! I broke both my arms in a car accident and couldn't do anything by myself for months. A friend would help me sometimes but i couldn't very well ask her to comeover everynight. (my mother died when i was 12, so that's not an option)
I'm sure someone will suggest that we should have hired a good puritan grandma to help me wash my hair but AMAZINGLY enough, i was more comfortable with my dad, even though he was a male. (like most would be)
So yeah, it was awkward and he averted his eyes and I blushed but we got over it pretty quickly. It was much less awkward then whenever I had to call for him to wipe my butt. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(August 09, 2013 09:40 PM)
"How the hell can a dad bathing his daughter being inappropriate?"
LMAO, I can't believe you just said that. ANY daughter, age regardless? Would you be ok with a dad and his young adult daughter? And being topless at ten has nothing to do with anything; girls like that don't have breasts. There is NOTHING creepy about respecting others' privacy, good Lord.
I never said it was sexual, I said it was inappropriate. And Julianne, 17 is incredibly inappropriate if you didn't have something covering you; you said you both got over it pretty quickly, does that mean he no longer averted his eyes, or no part of you was concealed? How dare you or anyone make light of the idea that I or anyone else might have been molested as a child. This whole idea of things is just..gross to me. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 10, 2013 11:46 AM)
I would say its a cultural thing. Japanese families all bathe together, there is nothing wrong with it. There is only something wrong with it because you are conditioned to think that way. Being naked isn't being sexual.
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kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 11, 2013 09:33 AM)
Your are talking about what society tells you is appropriate, not all Cultures see it the same way. Many are much less uptight about nudity. Modesty is determined by the cultural or religious norms, it is not something a person is born knowing. We are born naked and everything else is taught to us. There are spa's women go to (here in the west) that we spend the day being pampered, facials, etc then finish with a hot tub, usually naked with other women. Changing rooms, same thing. There is nothing wrong with that at all. It's just a human body, just flesh and bone, there is absolutely nothing inappropriate about it.
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whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 11, 2013 02:19 PM)
Once again, using a women's locker room as an example of non-modesty is not really a viable example; every country has changing rooms where members of the same sex change. Not comparable at all to being casually undressed around a member of the OPPOSITE sex. We can preach all we want how it's "just a body", but most know it's a lot more than that; it's very important, has very personal parts and most people would not be comfortable just carrying every inch of "flesh and bone" around bare.
"We are born naked and everything else is taught to us"
Not necessarily; most every culture has some rules about nudity and sex, and for obvious reasons people who use the latter loosely are generally seen as dysfunctional beings. Some of the most liberal actresses in this country have never shown their bodies, or all of them, in front of a camera. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 11, 2013 06:01 PM)
Talking about acting in-front of a camera, in-front of a bunch of people who are mixed sexes, not people they generally actually know, is completely irrelevant.
Yes cultures do vary in their perception of nudity and that is not what you are born knowing, it is still taught. Again, Japanese families bathe together, nude, and there is not a thing wrong with it, that is their culture, their normal. You are uncomfortable with it obviously, so don't do it but don't put people down because you don't understand their beliefs. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 11, 2013 07:49 PM)
Acting naked in front of a camera is not in the least irrelevant, esp in fact if they don't generally know such people. I don't really care what Japanese families do together, as one, I've heard they don't all do this and have an age limit to bathing with their kids, and two, being even semi-undressed around family is different from considering nudity to be nothing at all. If you really imagine just about every person in the world, if not raised to have modesty, would not naturally start feeling awkward at LEAST aound the ages of puberty, I can't imagine where you come from.
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kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 12, 2013 08:58 AM)
Would you take your children to the museum?
Where I come from I don't teach my children they should be ashamed of themselves, I don't tell them the human body is something shameful an indecent. Where I come from (and the majority of people I know), we are educated enough to understand the human body is a "body" and nothing more. I don't want my children thinking that "Michelangelo's David" is something shameful or should make them feel uncomfortable.
There is a huge difference between naked and sexual, you are absolutely correct there. The intelligent person knows that difference, there-fore is not ashamed of nudity if it is not in a sexual nature. To think people naturally know modesty, is completely ridiculous, this is a learned trait not a born one. We are born with basic instincts none of which is modesty. That is taught and being shamed is also taught.
If acting in front of a camera is not irrelevant, then why is my example of a change room irrelevant according to you?
Japanese was one example there are also many tribes who have been around much longer than any of us, who do not have issues with nudity. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 12, 2013 11:28 AM)
"If acting in front of a camera is not irrelevant, then why is my example of a change room irrelevant according to you?"
Actually I was going to ask, if acting in front of a camera with "strangers" is irrelevant, why isn't changing in a locker room irrelevant to you? I'll tell you why the change room is to me: bc you're among members of the same sex, who are not focused on YOU and catching images of your body to show millions of more strangers. I think that's startlingly obvious. I think it's also alarming that some people think since the human body isn't something to be naturally ashamed of, we should be ok with parading it around or using it for show. How could anyone think that since nakedness can be used in art, the human body is therefore not sacred enough to be protected? The very fact that it's misused by so many is ample reason for modesty, and it's perfectly natural to want to keep such personal parts covered for protection of more than one kind; I'm surprised you don't seem to think that lack of modesty is at least equally taught if not more so. Besides this, being sexually attracted to the body is also natural, and such attraction would be a constant and unpleasant distraction if we did not robe ourselves appropriately. We can argue forever about whether modesty's inborn, but I think for reasons of nature itself it is, and if not that, the knowledge of people's line of thinking would be. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 13, 2013 02:27 PM)
Actually I was going to ask, if acting in front of a camera with "strangers" is irrelevant, why isn't changing in a locker room irrelevant to you.
I said this because you had already quashed the idea of a change room then you brought up the actor example, no difference.
I am curious what world you live in that some people of the same sex are not attracted to each other and some people of the same sex would not catch images of each other to exploit.
You are really drifting off the main topic here in huge leaps. The point of this conversation was a child of 9 being naked in front of their parent(s)and how you feel it's inappropriate. I am still trying to understand why. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 13, 2013 02:28 PM)
Actually I was going to ask, if acting in front of a camera with "strangers" is irrelevant, why isn't changing in a locker room irrelevant to you.
I said this because you had already quashed the idea of a change room then you brought up the actor example, no difference.
I am curious what world you live in that some people of the same sex are not attracted to each other and some people of the same sex would not catch images of each other to exploit.
You are really drifting off the main topic here in huge leaps. The point of this conversation was a child of 9 being naked in front of their parent(s)and how you feel it's inappropriate. I am still trying to understand why. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 13, 2013 07:26 PM)
I think I already explained the difference between a locker room and filming, Kmra. As for the matter of a child, I've already been through that ad nauseum in the other replies; whether you find it natural or not, most people have developed a sense of modesty well before nine, and to invade someone's privacy like that is extremely wrong. We both went off the topic from the beginning, and have been discussing basically the concept of your idea that I or anyone is programmed to have modesty.
"I am curious what world you live in that some people of the same sex are not attracted to each other and some people of the same sex would not catch images of each other to exploit"
What's your point here? That since there's the possibility of a lesbian or homosexual man in a changing room with a predatory personality, there's no difference whatever between undressing among members of the same sex, in a private room too, and walking around naked in public or being naked among the opposite sex? Is there a difference between a woman being undressed in a locker room with other women, and being undressed in a room full of men? You tell me. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 13, 2013 11:11 PM)
Ok you are now forgetting what you said, or, changing your mind? You are the one who said a change room was not relevant because it was the same sex and there was not a chance of someone exploiting another with pictures or being sexually attracted. I was pointing our your error, and now you are trying to make it sound like it was my idea?
Yes, how you feel about nudity is a conditioning, it is something culturally based, religiously based, socially based. We are taught what is accepted by society and what i not. It is not the same in every culture and children all over the world are not the same at age 9, or feel the same way. It is not automatic, it is programmed.
Attitudes about nudity can vary greatly. Nude sunbathing is quite normal in Europe for example. Topless at the beach in Europe and Australia for women, is socially accepted. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 13, 2013 11:23 PM)
"You are the one who said a change room was not relevant because it was the same sex and there was not a chance of someone exploiting another with pictures or being sexually attracted"
I never said there was no chance. I said it was quite different from having a roomful of people looking closely at and filming you, as in a movie. If one believes the locker room is a valid example of non-modesty, it'd fall on them to compare it with general nudity. -
kmra123 — 12 years ago(September 14, 2013 09:02 AM)
I refuse to be dragged into a unproductive discussion. Again I made my statement after you had quashed the idea of a locker room/change room, which is why I couldn't understand why you would use it as an example, and I still don't understand it no matter how much you try to avoid answering.
I also notice you ignored the examples of nude beaches, topless or totally nude, being quite socially accepted at the beach in parts of Europe. As well as my pointing out that regardless of these things, our feelings to do with nudity, are very much taught not something we are born with, certainly not something that just happens. That is basic sociology.
I do believe our conversation at this point has met its impasse. -
whitespirit26 — 12 years ago(September 14, 2013 12:39 PM)
Nude beaches are a fine example of the world becoming increasingly liberal. Yet even with such things in Europe and Australia, there are plenty of actors and actresses from those realms that refuse to show every part of their bodies while being filmed. I'm sorry you couldn't understand my explanations about locker rooms, but I've tried to explain things pretty clearly. It's an impasse indeed and the majority of the topic has been counterproductive.
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Reva_C — 12 years ago(March 30, 2014 06:40 PM)
I don't know what's sadder.that someone has been arguing it's inappropriate for a father to bathe their own child past a certain ageor the fact I actually sat here and read this ridiculous argument.
There is nothing wrong with a father bathing his daughter, even if she is nine. Or seven. Or even seventeen having been in surgery or an accident. So long as there are no indecent thoughts or motives, then it is a pure thing.
What have we come to as the human race when people seriously think that it's inappropriate for a father to bathe their own child at all of seven years old, the person that a daughter is meant to be able to trust and depend on above all overs in life, no matter how much other people will screw them over at somepoint.
This kind of thought process makes me think we should all give up, it's too late, humanity can't be saved! When we can't even trust fathers with their own children because of a few sick individuals. Flipping heck, it's just depressing that there are truly people in this world who think like that.
I think it's far more inappropriate to assume there's something inappropriate about a parent seeing their child naked. So long as the child understands that they shouldn't be naked in front of other people.because their parents are an exception because they will always be the people they can trust and who will look after them in the whole wide worldthen all is flippin peace and love.
I hate to say it, but to me I find a person more inappropriate for thinking inappropriate things about a father's mentality with his own child when there is absolutely no abusive act or thought involved. Sheesh.