Was Howard Good or Bad?
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activista — 9 years ago(September 17, 2016 04:24 PM)
@Clem_DeFontane
Oh,come onfolks talk about the aliens, but Howard was the real monster in that whole scenariothe fact that he seems like a nice,sane stable good guy initially throws the audience off, but then little by little, he gradually reveals that he may have more than a few screws loose,so to speak, up there. I mean the way he suddenly went off on the other two during dinner for almost no real reason, the fact that he even had that vat in the first place was unnervingand no, neither Michelle nor Emmett had any guarantees that he wouldn't hurt them sometime in the near future. He could have just let the guy escape, but, no, he had to play God and decide he was going to do what he did to him. He could have chosen to handle that the situation differently, but he didn'tand that's the most disturbing part of the movie. But, yeah, the ambiguity of that whole situation definitely kept up the suspense level. -
englisher101 — 9 years ago(November 11, 2016 11:52 PM)
Oh,come onfolks talk about the aliens, but Howard was the real monster in that whole scenariothe fact that he seems like a nice,sane stable good guy initially throws the audience off, but then little by little, he gradually reveals that he may have more than a few screws loose,so to speak, up there.
It's not so clear to me that he's such a monster, at least not inherently. For example, his daughter might have scratched "Help" on the glass for the same reason Michelle thought he was a kidnapper. He might have given the perception of "kidnapping" his own family while attempting to protect them.
It's bound to make a guy unstable when he's the only one who believes this. From his perception he's trying to save people's lives but the people he's saving are trying to either kill themselves by escaping or kill him.
Granted, he's far from ordinary, but I don't think it was crystal clear that he was a monster who deserved to die at least I like the film a bit more if it wasn't that clear. -
slemmet — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 10:12 PM)
For example, his daughter might have scratched "Help" on the glass for the same reason Michelle thought he was a kidnapper. He might have given the perception of "kidnapping" his own family while attempting to protect them.
That doesn't make sense though. How do you figure that could have played out? "Megan" or whoever the girl was who scratched HELP was not there, so where was she? If we are to believe the version where Howard was only trying to protect people, that means the alien attack happened as he said, BEFORE crashing into Michelle's car. So there would be no justifiable reason for Howard to have kept his family trapped in the bunker in this point, since there hadn't been an attack yet. So, then he must have trapped "Megan" in the bunker as he got home with Michelle, but that means he must have killed her and disposed of her in the short time before the bearded dude got there because he never saw her. So no matter which version you want to play out, Howard did something very bad to "Megan". -
registers-944-48791 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 01:48 PM)
Actually, Howard was paranoid. He's one of those USA freaks so full of health and money and no way to spend it. In the movie lore he just was lucky that an actual attack happened.
But building a bunker isn't easy, at all. Imagine all the years he spent wishing, planning and building it. It's tough enough to live such life, much worse is to live with a husband or father in that state. They must have agued many many times about the plausibility of an attack and the trouble of building the bunker.
Note that all this happened before the attack. The attack started when the girl was driving her car, and south area was having a blackout. And on the first blackout notice he freaked out and ran to his house, so yeah he's paranoid, he was just "lucky" to be paranoid and an attack happen.
What we don't know is what's the truth behind his real Megan dauther and the missing girl. We know he lied about her name and she being his dauther. We know the earing and the help message, we know she's missing, we know she was friend with him and took a happy photo together. We don't know if he whole family story is a lie, or if they left him and he took the girl as hostage. -
Smokey_T — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 01:21 AM)
His refusing to call her a woman gives an indication of why he was dangerous. He was a megalomaniac. When someone tried to escape, or hurt him they got turned into human custard.
Here's the thing. The girl died in the purifier room. Which was only accessible from the outside. The only reason we know she was not his daughter is what the other guy said, who also worked on the bunker. So at some point some girl was either kept in that area against her will, or escaped the main bunker lost her earrings there, and scratched a mark.
I still preferred a twist where the other guy was the psycho, and kidnapped her and murdered her when he worked for him making the bunker. It's a more interesting plot to make Howard a misunderstood and maligned hero, then a run of the mill psycho. -
kw25x — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 11:34 PM)
Actually he shows signs of a person who wants to be in total control, similar to those men who perpetrate domestic violence upon their spouse and family.
Howard shows no sympathy towards Michele or Emmett and their injuries and plays the victim when they disrespect him by throwing how he has saved their lives in their face.
He threatens them with physical violence should they not obey him and insists that Michelle's family and friends are all dead, despite no evidence to the contrary, giving the impression that she has nobody but him.
Common traits of domestic violence abusers.
The whole dinner sequence contains a fair indication of his character.
The dressing down of Emmett when he speaks on Michelle's behalf that "she doesn't find it funny", referring to the monopoly joke, is one example.
It's further confirmed when Michelle finds the word "help" scratched on the glass and the photo of his daughter that is really that of the missing girl.
Howard has lost his wife and daughter and has obviously kidnapped the girl and kept her trapped in his bunker, pretending to play happy families, then when she dies (or is killed by Howard) he replaces her with Michelle.
Howard may not have harmed them physically but he has certainly used bullying, emotional and mental abuse upon them. -
Stovepipe99 — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 07:40 PM)
Actually he shows signs of a person who wants to be in total control, similar to those men who perpetrate domestic violence upon their spouse and family.
Yup.
I think that where a lot of people get turned around when it comes to Howard's character is this whole idea that in an emergency you need discipline and order and it's
his
bunker and they should be grateful for being saved, etc, etc.
But it seems pretty obvious to me that Howard would act in almost the exact same way in a non-emergency. Particularly when (after he
kills Emmett
) he tells Michelle, "Now it's just you and me, like it was always meant to be." -
SingleServingJack — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 03:37 AM)
Howard was a psycho. End of story.
He might have helped them, but he also wanted to keep them there. He never tried to get any information about whether they can escape, what is going on outside, etc. When he heard the helicopters, he immediately presumed they are not US military without checking.
He liked that they all were holed in there together.
My impression was that he would try to find excuses not to let anyone out for as long as possible and eventually, he would not let them out just like he did not let the little girl out.
He never even thought of Michelle as an individual - during the game they play, when he was supposed to answer "Little Women" and Emmett was giving him hints about the second word by pointing to Michelle, Howard kept saying "girl", "princess" and such. Emmett told him that when older, the girl is aand pointed to Michelle. And Howard still could not say "woman" because he did not think about her in those terms - to him, she was just a substitute for his daughter, his little "girl", his "princess".
So he helped them and saved them, yes, but not because he is a good guy trying to help. That's the point, he is trying to find some replacement family or something like that.
Laura:You left a dead prostitute buried alone in the desert?
Kyle:She's not alone. -
SingleServingJack — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 03:28 AM)
Bad per se?
He kidnapped and killed another girl, that was obvious. He crashed into Michelle on purpose, probably wanting to imprison her as well, but circumstances (aliens) changed plans.
Howard was a dangerous psychopath.
Laura:You left a dead prostitute buried alone in the desert?
Kyle:She's not alone. -
osubuckeye420 — 9 years ago(June 20, 2016 11:55 AM)
I'd agree with this.
He seemed more mentally deranged/unstable than truly evil.
He had the opportunity to kill Emmett long before Michelle showed up, and he allowed him to live until he felt "betrayed".
He also had the opportunity to do terrible things to Michelle before he uncovered her plot, and didn't do any of those things.
That being said, it's pretty clear that he did some truly horrible things before the start of the movie, and I think that if you took a poll, many would say that he was deserving of his ultimate fate. -
himalayangourmet — 9 years ago(July 04, 2016 11:12 PM)
Our courts recognize a level of insanity that makes a defendant incapable of understanding what they have done. The mentally ill excuse is invalid as a defense 99% of the time.
Pedophiles are sick/mentally ill, but their actions are calculated and 100% morally wrong. Yes they have a sickness that LED to their actions but they are conscious of their behavior. Just like Howard was. He's evil. Plain and simple.
Pretty much every sick criminal has some level of mental illness but that excuse is garbage. People will be held accountable for the actions they are conscious of. -
bluemagicmist — 9 years ago(July 08, 2016 08:03 PM)
The courts don't recognize those diagnosed with one of the 4 Cluster Bs, which includes, Anti-Social Personality Disorder (psychopath/sociopath)and Narcissistic PD, as a valid excuse for crimes committed by them. They're defined as mental disorders in the DSM but not a 'get out of jail free, card' nor, are they considered for a stay in a psych unit. All four know right from wrong which is the determining factor.
People with NPD do not live in reality and are prone to delusions but are not schizophrenic. -
EdwardVe — 9 years ago(July 09, 2016 03:59 PM)
The question is whether or not one can be unintentionally evil. If you for instance look at Hitler; he was convinced the world would be a better place without the Jews among others. Does his evil deeds then make him evil, when he himself believe it's for the good of the world? We're all evil in the eyes of someone. The word evil should be reserved for fairy tales, while we in the real world look at the complexities of the human mind. The word evil is just a copout for people who fail to acknowledge what a human being can rationalize and get itself to do.
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andromache3 — 9 years ago(July 14, 2016 09:05 PM)
The question is whether or not one can be unintentionally evil. If you for instance look at Hitler; he was convinced the world would be a better place without the Jews among others. Does his evil deeds then make him evil, when he himself believe it's for the good of the world? We're all evil in the eyes of someone. The word evil should be reserved for fairy tales, while we in the real world look at the complexities of the human mind. The word evil is just a copout for people who fail to acknowledge what a human being can rationalize and get itself to do.
Are you joking? Just because Hitler convinced himself that the world was better off without people he considered undesirable, doesn't mean that he wasn't evil. Are you seriously going to justify mass murder, amongst other crimes and accept warped belief systems? Evil most certainly exists in this world. Stop trying to intellectualise the criminal acts of vile people.
"You have bewitched me, body and soul, and I love, I love, I love you." Mr Darcy