I really don't get it, why even…???
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westpowerbuy — 9 years ago(May 28, 2016 11:41 AM)
Just think about what you are saying. They might not understand what is happening, but they can concluded that eventually only one version of themselves is going to make it off the ship and most will want it to be their version. Eventually they will kill their other selves.
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diver5050 — 9 years ago(May 31, 2016 08:34 AM)
With due respect, I'm not buying that. I agree with the OP, and I think this is a plot flaw. We can argue that at some point, during one of the loops or 'overlaps' that something was introduced to the plot that would call for her to kill the others - or at least explain to her why it's necessary - but that never happened - or at least we (the viewers) never saw.
Yes, once she 'spins her way' through the overlaps, to what I call 'the top' where she is in the mask, and gets pushed off the boat by her earlier self, she returns to the beach at the early morning, same day. One could argue that she knows this must happen (getting pushed off the boat by earlier self) in order for her to return to her son, because that's what's happened so many times before, but that doesn't prove that it's the ONLY way she can return to her son.
So the question remains, where did she get the idea that she needs to kill them all? -
camcody — 9 years ago(May 31, 2016 12:53 PM)
As I recall (and I have not watched the film in quite awhile), didn't she get her mistaken assumption from the point when she witnessed the last of her group, Sally, die among all the other Sallys, then observed her new group on the upside down boat?
She assumed, and said something like, "When they are all dead, they return" or something to that effect.
Regarding her falling off the ship which triggers her going back to the past, she did not remember any of that when she was on the ship.
Camcody -
spam-22058 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 09:53 AM)
Given the nature of how events proceed early on after boarding the ship, all of her companions are killed by the Nth iteration of Jess making the notion of saving any of them completely moot as it has, in effect, already happened.
Those events may play out in a slightly different fashion based upon slight changes in impetus, but the end result is always the same ie: the rock tumbles down the slope and has to be pushed up it again. It might fall slightly to the left, it might fall slightly to the right but the path it takes on its return voyage doesn't matter in the overall scheme: the rock has returned to its starting point.
Consequently: Even if a long surviving iteration of Jess [evil Jess?] came to the conclusion that they could somehow be saved, that epiphany occurred to her at a point where they were already dead. An argument could be made, though not really substantiated by much, that Evil Jess is a long surviving iteration of Jess that has either accepted her fate on the ship or been driven quite mad by it. As we only ever catch glimpses of her, it is very difficult to piece her in with the information available.
It is my opinion that there is no differentiation between the 'real' world and the ship they are both effectively a state of limbo that only exist in some meta sense. Once she washes up on the shore she is no better off than she was on the ship, as she is still trapped in the same phenomenon while not realizing it.
The only link that seems to offer any notion of escape is the Cabbie driver. We see her return to the Harbor and get on the boat in a manner similar [identical?] to how the movie starts out, but there is nothing to substantiate the events that occur after the movie fades to black. While it is easy to assume that the end is the beginning, that leaves a number of loose ends including Evil Jess. It is my assumption that what is seen at the end of the movie is the prelude of Evil Jess slightly more mad than the iteration [if it is even an iteration] preceding her. She may even try to save them all via rational explanation once they board the ship. Perhaps the realization that they are condemned regardless of action is what pushes her further over the edge.
Long story semi-short:
You are jumping in to a seemingly repeating scenario at an arbitrary point and are only granted the perspective of what is effectively a single iteration, even if it seems to be entangled with others. There may well be a scenario in which she does try to save them without killing them all. -
philoj — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 05:14 PM)
Note from the necklaces and the pile 'o bodies that she's been looping a LONG time. We can't be sure what happened in the first loops - I would guess that at some point each of them were killed accidentally. Then (by coincidence) the loop reset. Over time, they die, and she washes ashore. Again, and again.
So figure she's going mad, and lost the handle on causality. So in her mind, it becomes if she kills them all, then the loop resets.
Philo's Law: To learn from your mistakes, you have to realize you're making mistakes. -
hazardoushenry — 9 years ago(June 02, 2016 03:03 AM)
I'm not sure why people are struggling with this.
From our Jess' point of view she is entering the Aeolus environment for the very first time.
She is attacked by an unknown assailant who before falling overboard, tells her that she must kill them all so that the yacht can return, it's the only way to save them.
Don't forget, this assailant was told the same thing when she first arrived.
So the idea is firmly implanted and the events that follow seem to suggest that it is right.
Given the circumstances and not being able to observe the events in the way that we, the outside viewers can, what other conclusion can Jess possibly come to?
From her perspective the whole thing does reset as soon as the last of her group dies and only with a 'fresh' group and a yacht (albeit an upturned one), does there appear to be any chance of escape. -
voyagerandsouthpark — 9 years ago(June 11, 2016 09:49 PM)
What i want to know is why does Mean Jess, the Jess who stabs sally and downey, come to the same conclusion, I mean before she looped our jess scares her away with a shotgun and she eventually meets up with future Mean Jess and kills her, she even states later on that Victor dies, followed by Greg and Downey yet she ran away by that point and doesn't know about Sally. Would be good to see it from her POV as there are big gaps in what she does after she gets threatened with the shotgun
"sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself, I'll get to you in a moment, sir!" -
stvd111 — 9 years ago(June 07, 2016 05:07 PM)
Jess is dead. Something that is often overlooked, is that she is dead from nearly the beginning of the film. When we see her driving to the marina at the beginning of the film, she gets into an accident that kills both her and her son, just like at the end of the film. The whole film is her version of the afterlife. It's basically her personal version of a Sisyfian tale. From the end of the movie, we see that she is either not a good a mother or a mother at her wits end. So instead of going with her son into the afterlife, she tricks/lies to the cab driver (death or the ferryman of the river styx) into bringing her to the boat. There are heavy Greek tragedy references throughout the movie; Aeolus, Sisyphus, and one that may or may not be intentional Her watch is stuck at 8:17, her time of death. Combine the title name "Triangle" and 8:17 and you get a Pythagorean theorem equation which is named after the Greek mathematician of the same name. I think all these things point towards it being a tale rooted in Greek Mythology. If you accept that it is a Greek mythology tale, then she is Sisyphus, who is destined to push a rock up a hill every day for all eternity as punishment for him lying to and cheating death, which we see her do at the end of the film with the cab driver, when she promises to return him, which she doesn't. In the original Greek tale, Sisyphus is also known to have killed several travelers and guests, which Jess does in this movie too. The thing that makes this movie very confusing for people, is that they accept Jess's idea that she is in a time loop that is giving her the ability to change her life. She is not. She is dead, and is being forced to experience this as her afterlife, for all eternity.
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westpowerbuy — 9 years ago(June 09, 2016 08:15 AM)
Yep, that is my assessment as well. I said it long ago this is a afterlife damnation movie more than a time travel one. The only thing that is "real" is the opening shots of her getting ready and the car headed to the harbor. We don't even really know if the accident went down exactly like it does at the end. Maybe she was turned around beating the kid the first time. Just that at 8:17 it is presumed she and her son were killed in an accident and then she passed over into the afterlife for her damnation of endlessly "trying to push the bolder up a hill"
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newbiesan — 9 years ago(June 16, 2016 01:43 PM)
I also concur, because of the note at the start. That is the onyl thing that does not loop.
But I don't agree about tricking the ferryman. I don't see her as Sisyfian, but I see her in the field of punishment. This is her punishment, seeing her kid die over and over and over. She will see that she loved her son and even killed peeople for it. And at that point it restarts.
The ferryman knows all this: He tries to convince her to try to escape this : "there is nothing anyone can do to save him"
And he knows she will come back
"You will come back won't you?"
But to make sure she will never succeed, hades wipes her memeries when she falls asleep on the boat. and all she remembers is "having a terrible nightmare". -
minasituation — 9 years ago(July 06, 2016 09:03 PM)
Oh my god thank you. Seriously. I just watched this movie and was really thrown off on the logic of it being a time loop, it wasn't sitting right. This explanation just made everything click I hadn't put together what Downey and Sally had said earlier about Sisyphus and the specifics: that he had "tricked death, or made a promise to death that he didn't keep". It is no accident that she said at the end "Yeah I'll come back, I promise". So satisfying having this now. She is literally Sisyphus. Thank you.