Main villain not so evil?
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dgplante — 13 years ago(February 06, 2013 11:17 PM)
Keegan was a killer, but a killer who had a certain honor to him. In another film, the same character could have been a hero.
Which makes BTTH that much more remarkable. Aside from Stallone needing aid in taking Momoa out, which we've never seen before (Sly is always the Alphiest Alpha Male), Momoa is not Hannibal Lecter or Darth Vader but a merc with honor.
Why can't most of the film critics who saw this film not appreciate these finer points? Because they see Stallone's name on the screen and their mind goes on autodrive.
Stallone took a chance, played against type, did something fresh and exciting, and people crucify the poor sob for it. -
camel-wides — 13 years ago(February 07, 2013 08:34 PM)
no one is purely evil, and no, Keegan was not meant to be purely evil. they made that clear when the black cop who was working for the bad guys made his point about his whole hero stance to the mercenaries
However- He might not have killed the asian tattoo clients, but not killing Lisa was because her use as a hostage/bait was alive. dead, she would not have had any worth to them.
- So, not raping a girl makes you not evil again, the whole point of grabbing Lisa was to use her as a pawn to bring Jimmy to them.there would be no point in torturing her, and killing her would have negated her use.
- I do agree he cared at least a little about the men under his command. He seemed pretty pissed indeed when his boss treated them as simply collateral damage.
- His whole "You do not have to do this" was not about bringing Lisa out. His boss had no intention of killing her at that moment. His point, as pretty well explained in the next part of the scene, was that his boss didn't need to hire Jimmy to bring in the cop. He was pissed that his boss was bringing in another contractor to do a job he himself felt he should be doing. And at the same pay rate. That was his concern, it had nothing to do with honorable intentions towards the girl.
- Not shooting Jimmy was not about a warriors honor code. It was about who Keegan was as a person. He thrived on being the biggest bad ass in the room, and he really wanted to kill Jimmy, especially after continuing to be antagonized by him throughout the movie. He blamed Jimmy for the death of his team at the boathouse. He was angry that Jimmy made him look bad by taking Christian Slater's character out of the party right under his nose. And he was pissed that he failed to kill Jimmy in the first place at the bar.
Sure, he wanted to kill him without the gun, but lets be honest, He had several inches, quite a few pounds, and a lot of youth on Jimmy The fight should have been a lot more one-sided, and clearly Keegan expected it to be. This wasn't warrior code this was wanting to beat his ass slow, and kill him more painfully than a simple gunshot wound.
all together, no not pure evil, but no one truly is except Sauron, and Emperor Palptine.
Basically a pretty decent and competent bad ass bad guy with a grudge.
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coolcleangreen — 13 years ago(February 19, 2013 03:15 PM)
i think also, keegan wanted to stay in control of his own plot to antagonize Jimmy by keeping his daughter out of sight. keep jimmy guessing until they got what they wanted. he was going to kill jimmy, lisa, and kwon anyway just to cover all bases as evidenced by his willingness to kill everybody in the room just to cover his tracks at the gangster's bar.
"the whole world's on fire, isn't it?" -
Fuxxored — 12 years ago(August 16, 2013 04:37 PM)
Actually men infinitely more intelligent then you have mused on the nature of evil as it applies to normative ethics and under these conditions it is rather easy to define. In fact I would go so far as to say that in deontological terms you can actually be objective about this.
"I am nobody's bitch! You are mine" -
Ray_Tango — 13 years ago(February 25, 2013 03:22 PM)
I see the final fight more as Keegan was in it for the thrill. It was a challenge for him. He could've easily ditched the building amidst the chaos, but stuck around to take on Bonomo.
Bonomo still had a bone to pick even if Keegan took down the crew that gave him the raw deal. He needed to make sure all loose ends were put to rest. I wouldn't say one is more evil than the other. They're both contract killers. They'll never be described as "good guys", and that's not how the film portrayed either. Stallone only let the cop live in the end, because he knew the cop would cover his ass from within the force there on out. Stall investigations, let him jump the border, etc.
Brevity for arguments sake: -
AdvanceIstheMan — 12 years ago(August 20, 2013 06:47 PM)
He murdered what, like 30 people in the movie? Apparently that means you're "not so evil" as long as they're criminals. He attacked and kidnapped an innocent girl, but he didn't molest her so he's not THAT bad. What part of shooting a bunch of unexpecting people or stabbing a guy at a bar shows a warrior's honor? He shot the one guy in the face that was actually sticking up for him.
They threw in little comments about him over the course of the movie to try to give him some depth or to make him seem more enigmatic, that's it. They wanted a cooler bad guy so they made him a badass that's in it for his own reasons and not just the money. Apparently you bought into it because you decided to make this ridiculous thread.