Women dressing for themselves, not for the male gaze
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Penelope — 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 01:32 PM)
You have it right in some circumstances. Some women dress, for lack of a better term, provocatively, for their own pleasure; i.e., for the good feelings it elicits when men notice and find the woman attractive. These women don't necessarily want anything further from men other than to be found sexually attractive. They also do it to beat away the "competition". The more attractive she looks, the less men will notice other women.
Look, it's a little dance that has existed through the ages in one form or another, and nothing will change. It boils down to attracting the best mate possible, even if procreation isn't the end-game. Attributes matter, and we're hard-wired to look upon attractiveness as positive traits to pass down to successive offspring and continue our line. -
dbentley666 — 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 01:42 PM)
I agree on the whole, especially with "These women don't necessarily want anything further from men other than to be found sexually attractive." Unfortunately, only a certain type of man will be willing to go just that far and no further. Women know that too, and take suitable precautions.
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— 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 01:32 PM)Men are hard wired to find tits and arse sexy, that is never, ever going to change. To think otherwise is quite frankly unrealistic. Can you imagine! the human race would die out if nobody finds anyone sexually attractive anymore.
So womens intentions are pretty much irrelevant. They can say and, even in some cases, really mean that they're dressing for themselves but they'll never stop men from staring at their boobs. I don't like men staring at my tits so I never wear anything that's low cut, that's not prudish it's just common sense. -
dbentley666 — 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 01:38 PM)
I don't buy the "hard-wired" argument. Lots of anthropological work suggests that in societies where everyone goes around naked, nobody checks out tits and arse more than cursorily. Civilized society has made nakedness interesting by insisting on clothes. So not hard wired, but culturally insistent.
In that context, women are definitely aware that revealing some body parts will arouse men, and deliberately play with that. Nothing wrong with it, and it makes life interesting. As a liberal, I believe that a woman has a right to dress any way she likes, and I shouldn't harass her for it (or even stare at her). But I assume a lot of men think differently, and perhaps have a right to. -
— 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 02:09 PM)
Lots of anthropological work suggests that in societies where everyone goes around naked, nobody checks out tits and arse more than cursorily.
I feel sad for them! But seriously I can see that, if you see it all of the time maybe you become immune to it. I often wonder about gynaecologists, do they go home and say "not now darling, I've been staring at fannies all day long"?
Yes, absolutely women have the right to dress however they want and it isn't an invitation to touch, follow or harass.
However I think it's unrealistic to expect people not to look at you if you're wearing something revealing. It's great that you are aware of how it might make a woman feel if you stare at her but honestly you are probably in a minority and some men might not even realise they're doing it, but obviously not the guy watching bikini lady mowing her lawn!
women are definitely aware that revealing some body parts will arouse men, and deliberately play with that
I agree and as you say there's nothing wrong with it, women also stare at men's bottoms and at their package, especially if they are in a nice pair of tight jeans and they smell of some sexy cologne. I ogle my husband all the time.
Sexuality is fun, just let's be honest about it. -
— 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 04:23 PM)
Monicah, I didn't say it was. Show me where you think that's what I said
I don't understand why it's so difficult to get the point across that I think it is UNREALISTIC to expect men to not look at a woman dressed in a sexy way. It's pretty normal behaviour!
Yes, it would be bloody wonderful to have a world where women were not raped, groped, followed, had obscene comments made or just made to feel uncomfortable and who knows maybe it could happen one day but I don't see it, that sounds bleak I know and let's hope I'm wrong.
I need to add that not all men are creepy scumbags, sometimes they're just responding to an attractive woman.
You think I'm old and don't get it, but I do. Dressing up, planning your outfit, putting heels on, doing your hair and make up whatever, is all part of being a woman, an enjoyable part. There's nothing wrong with it and who doesn't like being told that they look gorgeous? Here's the thing, I think that you do enjoy the male attention you get, so why not be honest?
You're a very attractive young woman Monicah, I have told you this before but I hope that you think of yourself as more than just that. -
— 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 05:34 PM)
You are saying me being a feminist was ironic which I take issue with since there’s nothing I did or said that’s contradicting with me being a feminist
I stand by that, because as I said above I don't think you have been honest about
why
you post photos of yourself more of less naked. It's clearly an invitation for men to look at you and admire you, you have even said you enjoyed the attention and that's great, but it follows that if you are dressing for men, that isn't a particularly feminist behaviour.
Let's just agree to disagree, I think the topic is more or less exhausted anyway. -
dbentley666 — 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 05:57 PM)
You seem to want feminism to mean whatever is convenient for you. It's a historical movement, with specific turning points and goals, not a grab-bag for What's-Good-For Monicah today. To post semi-nude pics on a message board might be feminist, but only if you re-define feminism as total freedom for one woman to do whatever she wants regardless of consequences. You need to do some reading.
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dbentley666 — 4 years ago(June 07, 2021 06:11 PM)
The idea that women should have as much sexual freedom as men have always had is a relatively minor variant of feminism, typical of yuppy aspirations in the rich countries of the West. In other countries feminists are happy if ordinary women are not killed and beaten and raped, or are given even half the average male income. To set up women's sexual freedoms as the crucial area of women's rights would strike many women as frivolous and counter-productive. It would be a bit like a man saying that traditional male rights to rape women have been taken away, and that he wants to fight to have them back. For many women from traditional societies, for a woman to be able to walk the streets without being molested is a huge deal. They would see people like you as anti-feminist, in that you are encouraging men to sexualize women.