Ellis was a stalker, and was extremely creepy.
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LilyDaleLady — 10 years ago(January 22, 2016 03:11 AM)
LOL, I completely agree. It is a "meme" of films that it is ROMANTIC for a man to stalk a woman and pursue her aggressively even after she has clearly said "NO". (Funny, I don't think it works in reverse. I am not sure anyone would think a woman being this blatant and aggressive is charming.)
As you very correctly state, it only "works" for the storyline, because the hero is handsome.often very wealthy.and is shown sympathetically. In real life, the stalkers like this are not handsome tech millionaires, but as you say look like Steve Buscemi (or much worse) and so we clearly perceive them as needy, weird, creepy, even mentally ill.
Why would a good-looking San Francisco tech millionaire, who could literally have almost any woman he wanted, be so fixated? My guess if you are lucky enough to be this rich and desirable, you have beautiful women making themselves VERY available ALL the time. This kind of pathetic desperation is far more common in people who have nothing to offer, are depressed, or have low self-esteem.
When we talk in the media, about rape the talk is often about "no meaning no". This movie dashes that all aside, and insists that "no does not remotely mean no, but means.keep aggressively making moves!" I'm not saying it promotes actual physical rape, but it does promote a mindset that a women's "no" is meaningless, and just a sign for a man to keep trying harder and harder! because she WILL say yes, if you just keep at her.
Again: only "cute" or tolerable because the lead actor is strikingly handsome (and we are told, very very rich).
If you reversed the situation, even with a very attractive actress.you'd quickly see how creepy this is. Somehow we accept it in a movie, because it is a very established storytelling "convention". Frankly, I didn't find it clever or original or charming in any way and it detracted from the interesting parts of the story, about what a woman might feel if she had lived through the entire 20th century in a young body. -
bobbobbob123 — 9 years ago(May 16, 2016 04:45 AM)
It is a "meme" of films
The word you're looking for is
trope
.
1b: a common or overused theme or device : clich
tropes> -
Kirthey — 10 years ago(September 08, 2015 06:44 PM)
Oh my god, I thought I was the only one. His behaviour completely killed any interest I had in their relationship. I can't believe Adaline actually apologized for telling him to beep off in the flower/apartment scene, her anger was entirely justified given that she made it clear she wasn't interested in taking things further at least 4 or 5 times by that point.
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Loquacient — 10 years ago(September 16, 2015 06:59 PM)
You people are just sad and pathetic. I can tell you're all young, because you're clearly brainwashed by a lifetime exposure to fear mongering media, ready to jump up and accuse another's intent based solely on your own imagined projections of motivation. You don't even realize that you're just sickly little lab rats, cowering in your cages because that is only what you have been conditioned to do.
Look up the legal term,
mens rea
, if you wish, to answer your petty gripe about whether Ellis' actions constitute crime. I'm here only to speak on the larger issue of your cowardice.
There was a time, before media empires began to capitalize on psychological phenomena (and in the process magnifying all the fears they have ever portrayed), that people were free to be human. Sure, bad things could happen, and there were - very rarely - dangerous people, but life was lived to learn and grow, and to make mistakes. Today, it is different. People are mere tools for their corporate masters, not wanting to think more deeply than 140 characters about anything, much less to go out and actually live life and take risks. You feel something like power when you brandish accusations, because you've never known the real power of doing anything for yourself.
That is why, when you see a man proving his deep affection, you see something malevolent. Not only do you not judge based upon real intent, but you don't care about the real intent even after it has been shown to you. You think you feel comfortable in your cage, so you reject the open door, thinking it must surely be even more dangerous outside it than it is inside.
People like you are going to bring us into another dark ages. Do you even know what that was, and why it happened? It can happen with too much information as easily as it happened with too little, and that is a real irony. It's clearly happening now. All one must do to see this evidence is compare common examples of exposition and language from the past few centuries. Up until the last century that one true thing that separates us from beasts - language - had been steadily evolving, becoming more refined and communicative over time, but the last decades have showed a rapid decline, as this important benchmark of human progress degenerates and devolves before our eyes. With it goes the rational mind and critical faculties of thought that delivered us from the dark ages those handful of centuries ago.
R.I.P., civilization. -
Miscella — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 02:25 AM)
Well, i don't think he started the insults Maybe you should stick to Suicide Squad for movies.
Hmm
You people are just sad and pathetic.
you're just sickly little lab rats
I'm here only to speak on the larger issue of your cowardice.
you've never known the real power of doing anything for yourself.
People like you are going to bring us into another dark ages.
I don't see any insults above those, so my guess is that you think wrong.
Haven't seen Suicide Squad yet, but I'm looking forward to it! -
Wuchakk — 10 years ago(September 21, 2015 07:46 PM)
Insightful post, Loquacient; thanks.
His actions can be innocently summed up by the saying "The proof of desire is pursuit." If you care enough you'll pursue the item of desire (whatever that might be, in this case a beautiful woman); if not, you won't.
At the same time there
are
stalkers who allow themselves to become obsessed by their item of desire to the point that it becomes unhealthy and sometimes scary. So it's wise to discern between the two innocent pursuit and unhealthy obsession.
My 150 (or so) favorite movies:
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls070122364/ -
chiaro_di_luna — 10 years ago(October 06, 2015 10:45 PM)
I've wondered about this for many years, and talked with many women about it. Basically, what's flattering from a hot guy in the safety of a movie is not always welcomed from an average-looking guy in real life.
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HeyCanWeTalk — 10 years ago(September 26, 2015 05:41 AM)
I may just be an oldie, but if at her age some nice good looking man were pursuing me with such intent I would be flattered. There was nothing wrong with him finding out her address and coming by - she'd been to bed with him for goodness sake, that wasn't the clearest message of "stay awaygive me space."
I found it very romantic, and it would have been more romantic had she not been so afraid to go with it and not been afraid of being found out.
I thought Harrison Ford was really good in the movie - wow, when he saw her it was so obvious that he was once in love with her (and maybe still). Not only by what he said but his body language - really showed what a great actor can do without even having to say all that much. I really miss seeing actors of his caliber in more of the movies coming out recently. -
pearlmode — 10 years ago(October 01, 2015 09:43 AM)
Awesome post Loquacient!
I have had admirers just like everyone else I suppose. For example, one guy who I had just seen and not even talked to found me somehow, through the internet, asked me on a date and I was curious. He wasn't bad looking, came from a real good family and had a good career. We went out, had coffee but I couldn't feel the spark. II met him once again just to make sure if the spark was there or not but no it wasn't for me! So I just told him I wasn't interested. Though it didn't really stop him and asked me out several more times but finally he gave up. His behaviour never bothered me though. There were no bad signs. He was a romantic guy interested in music, writing poems and art. Now I was flattered yes. Did I freak out?! No!
So I totally agree with what you have said. In this age people go out, have dinner, drinks, have sex and bam! He doesn't call? Or he calls whenever he likes? Now that's notr ceeepy!? All around us is full of soul suckers, people who take advantage of others, selfish beings How many times have I heard from my friends Why doesn't he call!? I thought we had fun and he cared about me?! He was so attentive, listened to me and even opened up to me!? But what happened?! Well girl you've been used. Such dark ages indeed. People cannot differentiate the difference between a true interest and a fake one. Too blind to see, too afraid to grab the real possibilities.
As for the movie I think saying that he wasn't gonna donate the books, he was bluffing. He was not gonna give up. Plus she slept with him, he didn't force her Her personal space in bed?! What are you talking about?! Plus their dialogue during that scene was quite playful. She didn't look unhappy or anything.
Generalizations. We love them don't we? If he pursues you and finds you, he's a stalker. If he is not into you, he's cool! -
CarusProductions — 10 years ago(October 28, 2015 04:58 PM)
Yes! Because on an unconscious level most people don't feel they deserve to be with someone, so they prefer the person they can't have, rather than finding someone with whom there is a mutual attraction.
Karina Lafayette ~ -
thulk01 — 10 years ago(October 27, 2015 11:23 PM)
Agree with most of what you said, although one could argue that it's not an entirely illogical distinction (creepy / not creepy) as it boils down to efficiency - you express your desire to take this woman out 4-5 times, she rejects the invitation and acts as if she dislikes you every time, so it's logical to conclude that she isn't interested; therefore continuing to pursue it would, on average, just annoy the woman so the behavior is socially unacceptable, leading people to classify those who continue to engage in it as "creepy."
For example if someone liked you, but you disliked him/her, yet he constantly called you and showed up at your house unannounced, you probably wouldn't like it, you would find it annoying, and you would class the person as "creepy."
Obviously in the movie it's a different story, but the "she's probably immortal and is rejecting me because she doesn't want to risk outliving me" explanation is so rare that you can't really assume that the person observing the interaction and making the classification would ever jump to that conclusion; they would jump to the much more likely explanation of "he's annoying and can't take a hint."
Of course, if the person doing it is rich and physically attractive, then most people would view it as far less "creepy" than if a poor and/or unattractive person did it, which is funny, but that's a completely different discussion.
Let me know if you have any additional thoughts or disagree with this. -
hvitlys — 10 years ago(December 19, 2015 07:11 PM)
Thank you guys for this thread, I've been waiting for an excuse to voice my thoughts on the so called 'stalking' word that everyone uses today. And thank you to Loquacient, ShirleyShirleyShirley, pearlmode, etc. I pretty much agree with you.
The word STALKER has become OVERUSED and deprived of its real definition. This is my summary.
Nowadays everything is considered 'stalking', yet everybody posts all kinds of info, pics, and whatnot on themselves, on the internet, dumping all of this private information to be available for anyone to look (nothing wrong with that, HUH?!
)
I too am from another generation. I was born in the late 70s. And dude, chasing someone romantically has always been how it is, but you learn how to deal with it and say no or whatever you have to, if you don't like the person.
Nowadays it is chasing people over the internet, but from the safety of one's home, without the other person knowing (and that's not creepy at all, right?!).
I just honestly think this 'stalker'/'stalking' concept has blown out of proportion, to the point that any kind of tiny romantic pursuit is labelled as that. Recently, an American friend told me that it was so ridiculous to the point that a (girl)friend of his said that a guy he was stalking her just because he asked her to dance with him once. Hello?!
To me (and a bunch of dictionaries) being a stalker or stalking someone entails harassment, insecurity, crime, and whatnot. If it's a romantic pursuit, either take it as flattery, or try to tell the guy no, and at some point it will stop. And if it does go to the border of being dangerous, yes: then it is stalking. Otherwise, people should grow a pair and TALK, instead of acting in a passive-aggressive mode, hiding behind screens, and hey: LIVE. If you don't go after what you want, you will regret it later. Everybody I know say they regret the things they haven't done - because they didn't dare to. So someone who tries is now simply labelled as a stalker. Excuse me while I roll my eyes.