Did this bother anyone else?
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externaltestaccount — 13 years ago(October 03, 2012 09:52 AM)
AK-47's are notorious for their crap aiming. Sniper rifles these are not. The movie actually comments on this. During Big Evil's two relatively prolonged gun attacks in the movie, there is a low body count considering the amount of ammo used. As for the scene, I thought they should have exited where they entered so as to get to their squad car quicker. But being an armchair cop is easier than the real thing
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RodneyAnonymous — 13 years ago(December 08, 2012 11:41 PM)
From a post later in this thread that is a reply to a different post, but you will get the gist
- The AK is very simple to employ. If you are familiar with the AR series of rifles (as any former Marine would be), you could figure out an AK in five seconds, even if you had never held one before. It is likely that - as a "modern" Marine, the character would have had familiarization training with the AK. He may not be an "expert" with it, but he almost certainly could have put it into operation. Also, it can be operated with one hand, though certainly not as effectively.
- So, it COULD have had two rounds in it. It COULD have had 30. The advantages of an AK over a pistol are so massive that it's worth the gamble. At worst, you get a few shots off with the much, much superior weapon, and then transition back to your sidearm.
- This is incorrect. When the SWAT team shows up, what are they armed with? Rifles. Are they performing a different CQB than everyone else? No. The fact is that ALL units who do CQB for a living use rifles as their primary weapons, and pistols as SECONDARY weapons. Anyone who knows anything about this would always take a rifle over a pistol, period. As to the light: It would have been handy, sure. Fortunately, mounted lights can be DIS-mounted, and used as a normal flashlight. This is assuming that he didn't have a normal flashlight on hand, which is a BIG assumption, because a hand held light is standard gear for every patrol officer in the world.
- Again, this is incorrect. A rifle carried in a good "high ready" is just as fast, if not faster, than a pistol. And the normal firing stance taught in all police academies uses two hands, so he's going to be out of his "comfort zone" in any case. Again, it simply boils down to the fact that the rifle is simply SO much better than the pistol, that any negatives are far outweighed by the positives
So, we can see that - in a perfect world - picking up the AK is absolutely the "right" thing to do. Is it a "flaw" in the movie? No, not necessarily. People do the "wrong" thing all the time, every day, under all sorts of circumstances. Expecting this character to do the "right" thing while under incredible duress is what is truly unrealistic.
Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
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cleft_asunder — 13 years ago(January 21, 2013 12:24 PM)
Rodney is correct on all points. This movie was very realistic, but the most unrealistic parts where the gang-banger mass shooting scenes. When the black people were having a bar-b-q, they were being shot at within 20 yards. An AK, in full-auto, is very effective within 50 yards. Even the most inexperienced shooter will get many injuries and casualties within 20 yards. In semi-auto mode, you can hit a man-sized target at 300 yards. Those people should have all been dead.
The apartment scene was the same. You had 4 (?) gangsters with ak's shooting 10 yards in front of them on two cops that are fully exposed. It would have been impossible to miss.
Before they fell into the ambush, they should have been suspicious of the van with black tinting. Running the red light while a cop is behind you is a red flag. The guy running out into the complex. No way would the cops be that stupid. And why didn't they grab the shotgun?
On the plus side, they filmed the Glocks in first person view, and I was so impressed with how realistic it felt.
Still a good movie though. -
activexcode — 13 years ago(January 27, 2013 02:07 PM)
Cleft mentioned:
"The apartment scene was the same. You had 4 (?) gangsters with ak's shooting 10 yards in front of them on two cops that are fully exposed. It would have been impossible to miss."
I know, right? Either the Curbside Gang was the Mexican version of the "Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight" or there was an invisible force field protecting Taylor and Zavala. How they didn't get "lit up" with bullets as they ran across the complex, in direct line of the bullets, is beyond me. And in the alley, how they hell did Taylor not get killed, while his partner was being lit up by the gang? The movie should've ended with BOTH cops dying, not just Zavala.
Oh well, Jake did help produce the movie, so he had to survive, LOL!!! -
sillyrabbi — 13 years ago(March 28, 2013 02:07 AM)
"Rodney is correct on all points. This movie was very realistic, but the most unrealistic parts where the gang-banger mass shooting scenes. When the black people were having a bar-b-q, they were being shot at within 20 yards. An AK, in full-auto, is very effective within 50 yards. Even the most inexperienced shooter will get many injuries and casualties within 20 yards. In semi-auto mode, you can hit a man-sized target at 300 yards. Those people should have all been dead." Best comment on this thread! The point here is that neither of the main players would have been able to pick up the AK or not because they would have been dead, period!
I don't care how many people on here talk about the inaccuracy of an AK. You can say it all day and it won't change the fact that neither cop would have made it out of the kill zone.
The only thing that surprises me about this place is that I continue to be surprised -
KittyKat214 — 12 years ago(April 09, 2013 12:10 PM)
WOULD YOU PEOPLE JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP ANALYZING THE FILM!?
Here's the real reason why so you all would stop bickering like a typical Arm Chair General moron:
Jake was shot in the hand, Pena was in shock. Both of them are more worried about finding a way out of the building rather than concerning about an AK on the floor. They didn't care what type of weapon was on the floor, THEY JUST WANTED TO FIND A WAY OUT OF THERE BEFORE THE GANG MEMBERS GOT TO THEM!
It has nothing to do with whether or not they are trained with an AK. Whether if they were in the military. Whether the AK is accurate. Whether the firepower from a 7.62 would go through building or any of that bullsh!t. This isn't Call of Duty you assho!e, considering the fact that they're already armed, it wouldn't have been the first thing on their mind.
Those two Police Officers barely manage to escape from a room with the panicked woman after ducking for cover from the leads being sprayed by the gangs, they have other things on their mind rather than fancying themselves over the weapon on the floor from the guy they just shot.
Simple freaking plot, and you people are making a big deal out of it. Jesus. -
hobartz — 12 years ago(August 11, 2013 06:15 AM)
Several points:
- scene of the AK shootup at the black's BBQ. The drive-by shooters are on an unstable platform and are not braced or trained in how to properly shoot semi- or full-auto AK's and handguns. A common error with semi-auto weapons is to hold the gun loosely and loose off shots in a general direction. If the shooter misses with the first round highly likely they will miss with subsequent rounds because each recoil is pulling the muzzle (exit end of the gun barrel)upwards. This means that most semi-auto followup rounds will hit the ceiling or clouds, not the target that just dived onto the ground. This is why so many of the BBQ gang survived the fusilade of bullets from The Curbside driveby.
- Impossible to miss at the apartment balcony ambush. You'd be amazed at how many rounds are expended in combat that go wild. See above comment about how the muzzle rises and forces shots from inexperienced shooters to go high and wide. Until you shoot an AK, you will not understand how hard to control they are. This is why the AR is considered a superior weapon: following rounds are much more controllable. If the cops moved fast and went low, which they did, they could very well have escaped most of the bullets. I wouldn't want to be in their situation, for sure, but certain death? No.
The unrealistic scene was the final alley shootout where the cops were firing in the direction of other cops. The alley was blocked and cops on both sides of the exposed gangbangers had their weapons drawn and aimed in their direction and also in the direction of the cops opposite them. Both sets of cops were firing. I'm not sure what the tactical rulebook calls for in such a situation, but I'd be surprised if the ROE are, "if the annoying cholo girl says something saucy and provocative, everybody rapid-fire your weapons in the direction and plane of your fellow officers and just hope they're lucky fellows".
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natbmw2-161-449157 — 13 years ago(January 28, 2013 06:29 PM)
Well said. I was going to have to type that all out and you saved me! Haha. After you use a variety of rifles picking one up doesn't feel so awkward. Having used the only really AR-15's, Glocks and a 1911 here and their I can say I picked up an AkM and it felt awkward but at the same time very simple to use. Literally a caveman could use it! That said when SHTF sometimes you just do and sometimes its not always the perfect best choice and when bullets start flying sometimes you just want to make sure your getting rounds down range at the bad guys for sure and that might be with a handgun you've been on the range with for hours and hours and hours.
It would have been interesting to have Jake cover fire with the Ak to get across and sort of fire and maneuver and hopefully hit a few of those gang members then just drop the Ak when it runs out and switch to your side arm. Its not just something you learn from video games. Often times Military units will do cross training with allot of other weapons, I know the Army does this in a few units but I can't speak for the Marine Corp. My best bud is in the Marine Corp and we watched this together last night and overall we both thought this was an accurate portrayal, I mean we both have the background and have spent quite a few good times with officers and in between calls there is allot of "dark humor", if you don't have dark humor on a job like this you simply are not cut out for it.
I really implore people to look at cops as good people because they are! This movie reminded me of my local PD very much! Cops are sharp on the edges but once you show your not a threat and you start to become one of them they are just like any other human being, like Jake voiced in the opening they have a heart under that badge and they still bleed red. -
gescamil3 — 13 years ago(October 06, 2012 03:52 AM)
you'd be surprised how easy it is to use firearms. They all pretty much use the same concept. If you know how to use one semiautomatic, chances are you can figure out any semiauto. The concepts for aiming and cocking rifles and pistols are virtually the same, the finer details like grip are kind of irrelevant.
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brandonmalbert — 13 years ago(November 16, 2012 08:41 AM)
Jake's character was in the Marines right? I'm sure he had training with assault weapons, maybe not an AK but I'd much rather have that when it's obvious you're facing a gang that all has them
"Hell yea I punch my bitch, and beat my kids in public" "EMINEM -
FlipcrackaE — 13 years ago(November 27, 2012 09:21 PM)
because cops don't use assault rifles? yeah, ok. cops may train on the regular with their semi-auto pistols, but they are trained and handle/handled a variety of weapons. be it in training or on the job.
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Lin301 — 12 years ago(September 09, 2013 12:41 AM)
It didn't bother me but here are some reasons that worked for me:
- They didn't trust a gang weapon; in a life or death situation would you rather trust on your own familiar weapon or a strange one that might jam or whatever?
- They didn't have any AK ammo, so assuming there's one mag in it, you would spray that thing empty in about 3 seconds
- They didn't have the time/mind to consider the reasons above and just wanted to get the heck out of there
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carsten_s_nielsen — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 03:03 AM)
Jamasian_man is right on the money. you learn this in the military as well. leave weapons on the ground that you are not issued. unless ofcourse you are out of ammo and in dire need of firepower. The movie portrays it right.
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adam-denicolo-ad — 13 years ago(January 16, 2013 08:00 PM)
It was mentioned in the beginning of the movie that Brian Taylor (the character played by Jake Gyllenhaal) was a former Marine. This should probably mean that he has at least basic training on the AK