Loved this film … just one 'but' …
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Arrival
MajinRobot — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 03:28 PM)
How was the Chinese militar leader able to tell Louise something that wouldn't have happened if SHE hadn't known about this information by another source? In other words: How can Louise see a visin of the future about something that was not going to happen otherwise? For example, I would have never made this post if I hadn't seen the film first, because that is what lead to it, but in the case of the film's situation (with Louise telling the leader something very personal) it would be like myself having a visin of my future in which I tell myself that I will make THIS post after watching this film, in Korean, a language I do not understand (know) Wouldn't that be an artificial vision of the future?
Maybe the film just implies that time is (in the film) not linear as we know it, but I thought that part was confusing.
I am happy I just watched this very interesting and different film about extraterrestrials, and seeing a film like this resolved without conflict was something I could definitely consider intelligent cinema. -
Bellator86 — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 04:25 PM)
I do think the film implies that time is not linear, we only perceive it as such because of the way we are. The aliens do not perceive time as being linear, since they knew they were going to be in trouble 3000 years from "now" and would then need our help.
How the aliens do this apparently relates to their language; language has an effect on how we view reality (SapirWhorf hypothesis) so the aliens perceive time as non-linear due to the nature of their language, unlike us that use completely different languages and perceive time as linear. That's why she over time starts seeing time like they do, because she learns their special language. Humans are not that far from seeing things differently in this sci-fi movie. -
MajinRobot — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 04:34 PM)
Bellator86, I am slightly confused by another thing now.
When people say: "Louise started perceiving time like the aliens do" do they mean actually living, even if just for short moments, in different times (I.e. Desmond in Lost's episode 'The Constant') or just having visions of the future?
Because I always thought it was the latter but I can't remember if it was ever mentioned like that and don't know if she might have been physically involved and also feeling those moments or visions. -
KarmaPoliceAndroid — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 10:21 PM)
It's called a closed loop, which is also how their language is shown.
What it means is that a future event can only happen if a past event occurs, but in order for that past event to occur the future event must first occur.
And you're about to say, "That's impossible, because the future event is in the future, and can't occur first."
That's why it's called a loop. In a closed loop time is a circle, and future events can effect the past.
It's like the end of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Harry is saved by what he thinks is his father, but it turns out to be himself. Only, he hadn't done it yet. The future event affected the past.
"Well," you're about to say, "that's because Hermione had a time turner and they went back in time." Yes, true, but then how was Harry saved to begin with to be alive to go back in time in the first place? Again, the only way it works is in a closed loop, where past and future co-exist.
What Louise is experiencing is a time loop. Learning the language altered her brain to such an extent that she began to experience time as the aliens do, which is nonlinear. Which means the rules of time as they work for us do not apply to her. She learns something in the future that she is able to use in the past because she is experiencing time nonlinearly.
(The first Terminator film is also an example of a closed loop. John Connor sends his own father, Kyle Reese, to go back in time, where Kyle falls in love with John's mom, Sarah Connor, who then gives birth to John. Which means that John's birth in the past is dependent on an event in the future. 12 Monkeys is another closed loop.) -
danielgalun — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 05:00 AM)
They're also linear time creatures though, they die, they have a concept of the future and they understand the passing off time. They're biological, so they're as dependent on linear time as we are. For them to be biological they'd at the very least need to process some form of sustenance. And they'd have to be borne/hatch/or something to that effect, then die. They'd have to consist of less complex life, like cells or their equal of cells, who all also follow this linear process. They'd have to evolve from something, which is also a process dependent on linear time. If these aliens really evolved to think like this then they would have no concept of time or the future, which they clearly do. If they somehow discovered this way of existing after they'd evolved to complex intelligent lifeforms, then it could kind of make sense, but nothing in the movie indicates this, it seems to me like they're just trying to make the aliens seem very alien, and the excuse is that as a human you simply couldn't understand. But if that was the case, then neither could the aliens, as they're dependent on the same linear existence we are. If they consisted of some kind of energy or something it would have been way more plausible.
-
vietnt-74535 — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 05:53 AM)
They have non-linear-time-brain (or sense or at least their logic is non linear-)
And no, the writers didnt lazy, they use casual loop paradox: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_loop -
danielgalun — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 06:06 AM)
Yeah, I didn't like that they used a paradox, they do it in Star Trek all the time, and I have to agree with Janeway and say I hate it.
Anyway, what you said about it being like a sense or something makes more sense to me. That dosen't explain how humans could develop this sense by simply learning a language though. Bit too magical for sci-fi, especially this kind of sci-fi, for my taste.