Future isn't static and written on the stone,but this film implies that
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The_TJT — 9 years ago(January 12, 2017 10:37 AM)
Does it really
After all the aliens came here to help them in the future. Was it changing their own future or just following through what was always going to happenAnd how do you reckon our future isn't predetermined? If we are just a series of atom movements followed by the big bang then it was already defined in the beginning of universe that you would post this topic
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HenryCW — 9 years ago(January 12, 2017 11:03 AM)
While the motives of the aliens in the film seemed to me a little muddled, the very fact that they sent ships to 12 locations to get the nations cooperate clearly implied that the future was not predetermined and depended on the reactions of men. If everything is unalterable (including whether the humans would help them 3,000 years from now), then when bother to make the trip?
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movibiju — 9 years ago(January 12, 2017 12:26 PM)
After all the aliens came here to help them in the future
Really? Do Humans are their only option or even the best option to save them? A race that is destroying their environment and keeps creating wars and weapons of massive destruction?
Besides, if they see the future, why they don't try to prevent that future right now, in a way that they don't need the help of a race as destructive and problematic like ours. The future depends on choices that we make in the present. It's like being on a route that leads to a certain outcome. If we change the route, that first outcome changes for other outcome.
Why humans always think that when someone gives them something it is because that someone wants something in return. Can an alien race came here and see our state of destruction, feel empathy and try to help us without wanting something in return?
And how do you reckon our future isn't predetermined?
Very simple! We have the ability to choose. Different choices lead to different outcomes. -
The_TJT — 9 years ago(January 12, 2017 06:51 PM)
Do Humans are their only option or even the best option to save them?
It wouldn't make much of a film if they had went to some aliens for help
Besides, if they see the future, why they don't try to prevent that future right now, in a way that they don't need the help of a race as destructive and problematic like ours.
How humans will help is left to your imagination. Not really very relevant to the story.
Their actions also probably made the humanity less destructive, having to cooperate in the end. Also consequences of seeing the future might actually prevent human race from self destructing - but that's for another film/novel.
We have the ability to choose. Different choices lead to different outcomes.
The point is that all you are is consequence of big bang, merely atoms moving inside your brain. You may think you can choose - but is each of your choice already predetermined by the stuff you are made of? Maybe it is only an illusion of choice. -
movibiju — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 07:04 AM)
It wouldn't make much of a film if they had went to some aliens for help
It would make more sense if the aliens would help us and in the process, they would help themselves, but in the present and not 300 years from now. Another even more interesting and less self-centered alternative would be for the aliens to help us without wanting anything in return.
Their actions also probably made the humanity less destructive, having to cooperate in the end. Also consequences of seeing the future might actually prevent human race from self-destructing - but that's for another film/novel.
Most humans do not have the slightest notion of the low probabilities that our race has to survive much longer if we don't change radically and in a short time.
If these aliens want humanity to be alive 300 years from now, then they have to do much more than give a mystical language for humans to learn. Most humans wouldn't believe in that.
Someone should tell the aliens that humans continue to make wars and build weapons of massive destruction although they had two terrible world wars not too long ago and also keep destroying their home planet despite all the scientific data on the subject.
Nowadays, the mystical premonitions and the scientific data converge and are warning us that we are in the path of destruction. The problem is always the same. Many people dont believe in the warnings and others dont believe that things can be changed.
The point is that all you are is the consequence of big bang, merely atoms moving inside your brain. You may think you can choose - but is each of your choice already predetermined by the stuff you are made of? Maybe it is only an illusion of choice.
One thing is that all alternatives that exist were created in the beginning like in a game, but the players still have to choose between the different alternatives that are given to them.
Do you really believe that? That means that no one is responsible for nothing. So people who commit crimes and evil deeds dont have a choice? -
The_TJT — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 07:46 AM)
One thing is that all alternatives that exist were created in the beginning like in a game, but the players still have to choose between the different alternatives that are given to them.
Do you really believe that? That means that no one is responsible for nothing. So people who commit crimes and evil deeds dont have a choice?
People are responsible for the choices they make, be they predetermined or not. If a machine malfunctions it will be fixed or turned off. -
movibiju — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 02:12 PM)
People are responsible for the choices they make, be they predetermined or not. If a machine malfunctions it will be fixed or turned off.
First, the machine cannot be fixed if it is predetermined that she cannot be fixed.
The person also cannot be blamed because there's nothing she/he can do about it. The person born that way and will die that way because it was predetermined from the beginning.
Let turn off all the machines who don't work and will never work because it is predetermined from birth that they will never work. Yah, good idea for the next totalitarian and murderous political regime.
Why bother to do whatever or try to be better if our future is predetermined. Even if we could see our future, we could never change it. I guess the present of the aliens wasn't so valuable after all.
Gosh, some people here really have a fixed mindset. By the way, mentality can be changed, it is not predetermined according to some scientific tests. -
The_TJT — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 03:09 PM)
First, the machine cannot be fixed if it is predetermined that she cannot be fixed.
I don't think you understand this argument. I was talking about machine machine can always be turned off, scrapped or fixed.
The person also cannot be blamed because there's nothing she/he can do about it. The person born that way and will die that way because it was predetermined from the beginning.
No. The deterrent of punishment affects your decision. But the deterrent itself would be predetermined as well.
You can make different decisions, those decisions are affected by many things. The argument here is that all those things contributing to your decision would be predetermined as would your decision making process. Getting rid of deterrents would increase crime.
You can't just think that none what you do matters you have to still make the correct decisions for your own (and others') sake. If you do nothing and don't even eat, you will die but the point is that you probably don't do that since you know it would kill you AND that's part of the predetermined process as well! you trying to make optimal decisions for your well being.
By the way, mentality can be changed
Of course it can. But that doesn't mean it wasn't always meant to be fixed - the fix itself may have been predetermined in Big Bang.