(Spoiler) Chinese General
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glvandermeer — 9 years ago(November 20, 2016 08:10 PM)
No that's a cop out, again him saying "I don't know how your mind works"
or "I don't know why I'm doing this"
Is a BS cop out plot
It's a flaw and it's what the whole movie hangs on, her ability to reverse the nations working independently,
Unless with the aliens "mind meld" she can control human minds it's total BS
It made no sense -
bikesloth — 9 years ago(November 20, 2016 07:32 PM)
It does seem to be a paradox unless you think of the possibility of General Shang also having learned the Heltapod language, therefore allowing himself the same gift that Louise has, seeing a future timeline and giving Louise the information he needs to alter his present militant mindset.
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glvandermeer — 9 years ago(November 20, 2016 08:18 PM)
See it's only a paradox to the plot UNLESS you TELL us that now I. The future the Gernetal also works the time travel and has himself been skipping around
BUT
without showing this, it's a mistake, as the film runs now it's a total cop out and a joke when the scene runs it reads to me as really childish
Another really troubling issue is that if indeed she married the man who has JUST gone through this alien experience with her, is aware of her language time travel Experience WHY would he fault her for telling her about their child's impending death? Or any future event, it's another stupid point that drags the end down
But that's not a plot issue, it's just dumb. -
glvandermeer — 9 years ago(November 20, 2016 09:43 PM)
No no one is addressing his action with showing the film
Not the language issue, if you'd read my comments you'd see I'm ranting because everyone is saying that the time understanding makes you able to understand language
That's not it
If YOU understand though why he says-
" I don't know why but I'll show you the number of my phone"
Then yes please let me know why and I'll stop ranting because yes no
One has answered that -
natts — 9 years ago(November 20, 2016 11:09 PM)
He didn't say that. Again, what he said was closer to: "I don't claim to understand how your mind works, but I believe it was important for you to see were that".
So he does know why he was doing it, because he knew it was necessary in order for the world to get to the point of having global unity (which was what was being celebrated at the event he was meeting her at), and to avoid the war (that he had declared) with the aliens (which would have cost human lives).
She called him (from the airlock) to remind him what his dead wife's last words were (that war is bad because it creates widows), which combined with the fact a random American woman called him on his private number at the most critical time (just before attacking), and she somehow knew something so private, he was convinced enough to halt their attack and reopen communications with the other countries, thus essentially saving the day.
18 months later, despite not understanding how her mind now works (being able to see all of her life at once), he has figured out that he needs to show her his private number in order to ensure what happened 18 months ago h still happens. -
AndrewF80 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 04:38 AM)
<spolier>
He was called 18 months ago when he met her at the Art museum. The language he used to speak to her has double meaning. The entire point of the film is that it's easy to misinterpret what someelse says.
And the commentary on the Chinese leasers quote is doing just that. He KNOWS she was able to call him on his PERSONAL number 1.5 years ago. He has no idea how she got that number. All he knows is that this is a chance to meet her in person. Tell her about the time she called him.
There are subtle clues people missed. She didn't KNOW she called him until he told her. This isnt time travel. Saying its time travel is missing the point of the movie; which is that TIME DOESNR FLOW LINEARLY. As she was talking to the General, at the exact same "moment" her other self was remembering talking to the General. The language has allowed her to stop seeing time as one thing after another. For all intents and purposes, the scene in the Military Anex and the scene at the Museum Galla were happening at the same "time." It was the first time my wife understood that time wasn't in sequence and the visual aid helped.
As for the husband leaving her, you've missed that as well. He's not ultimately upset his child is sick, he's upset she knew if they got together they'd have a daughter who would die young. If you remember she explained it. She said: "Daddy said I made the wrong decision." Earlier she had asked him if he knew how his entire life would turn out if he'd change anything. He said he'd say his feelings more. The idea is that she chose to have the child knowing she'd die. I.E. the wrong choice.
It's important to understand that throughout the movie she starts to see time. It comes as dreams, then flashbacks which are really flashforwards, then experiences all time at the exact same instance.
The language was a weapon/tool the species had to give to the humans so that the humans could save THEM in 3000 years. Anyone complaining about them using the word year didnt get the movie. They taught the pods their language. And she specifically mentioned having to teach them context, nouns,pronouns, and words only they'd (humans) understand.
The movie was brilliant. The museum scene only seems flawed if you think of those events happening AFTER the aliens came. It didn't. Because of her it happened at the same moment. She started experiencing and seeing all of her life at the same time. Its like being born then learning everything you would throughout your life but experiencing all the events simultaneously.
She doesnt control time. Time just doesnt exist for her anymore. She'll die. She isnt immortal. Theres no time travel. There's no changing time because for her time is no longer linear.
<spolier> -
doorclosed321 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 04:48 AM)
Bravo Andrew, you're almost spot with everything. 2 small points you're not quite right on. She didn't chose to have a baby anyway, she'd alrewdy had a bay, she didn't chose to marry Gary, she'd already married, she didn't chose not tell Gary so he didn't leave her, she'd already told him and he'd already left. She has no choice in anything
Like you say there is no time and everything happens simultaneously. So yes she will die, she will die infinitley, she died at the same point she entered existence. She died while meeting the heptopods. So will continue to do all things add infinitum. All the hetopods did was show her how to access her infinite self. She can now experiance any moment in her existence, but she can't chnage anything, becuase it's already happened and infinitely so
That's the onky two parts u get slightly wrong. But the way you understand everything else, I certain I'll now grap this -
AndrewF80 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 04:52 AM)
I like it. You're correct. I misspoke. From Gary's 'viewpoint' she did make choices. From her stand point, she was making all choices at the same time. Not everyone had the 'timeless' perspective at that point. Only she did, perhaps some others.
My wife brings up another good point. The heptapods came to the Humans and said.. We know you need 'this' in order to help 'us' in the 'future'. The Chinese General did the exact same thing. He went to her and said, you'll need this, to help us in the 'past.' However, at that point she had no future or past as you said.
Awesome clarification, you are spot on. -
doorclosed321 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 05:10 AM)
How about adding this on top. She came into existence at the same time as heptopods, her daughter, everyone that's ever exististed and dinosaurs. They will all go out of istence at the same point, which is exactly when they entered:) The fact she can't interact with dinosaurs, even though they came into exitence together it has nothing to do with time. They simply are not part of her existence experience and she cannot go outside her existence. All she can do is infinitley access all her experiences. That's how this fictional universe works, the onky difference is how it percieved. Heptopods proces thing simultaniously/infinateky and humans process things sequnetially. We confuse sequential processing as time and they simple show us it's in correct
The hetopods should've been called capernicus and Galileo, becuase all they did as show the church(huamns) that their understanding of reality wa wrong
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doorclosed321 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 05:28 AM)
You're still not 100% there. She wasn't making any choices at all. She was simply doing what already happened for enternity. Nobody inthis unverse has any choice. It's explained better in the book. But the scenes at the end of the filmare there to show you that she cannot change anything, even if she wanted to. No choice is ever made. Part of what humanitie's inability to experiance their infinite existence is their illusion of free will and sequential processing. Both those things are incompatible with accessing your infinite self
This movie and book is very anti Christ and very anti Christian. Pretty much all chiangs work is -
doorclosed321 — 9 years ago(November 21, 2016 05:23 AM)
Oh I missed anither small point you got wrong. The hetopods didn't need help I three thousand years, they already had the help. They jus said it in a way humans would understand, there is no 3000 years