biden is responsible for continued war in Ukraine
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WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(September 29, 2022 04:23 PM)
"and its not only the US, pretty much the entire civilised world have sent aid and weapons to the Ukraine."
How much and what did they send?
Have they sent nearly as much as what America has sent and only weapons of destruction?
Have any other countries, besides the US, convinced Ukraine to back out of any peace deals with Russia which prolongs the war and increases civilian casualties?
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
Robgoblin — 3 years ago(September 29, 2022 04:58 PM)
Wtf are you talking about? There are no peace deals. Putin hasn’t offered a single peace deal. They invaded and went straight for Kyiv, their capital. Meaning they wanted to end Ukraine and replace Zelensky and install a puppet loyal to Russia. But they got their assed kicked cos Russia is just a bunch of incompetent clowns with **** for gear and weapons.
And the US hasn’t “convinced” the Ukraine of anything. They like others have aided them to themselves form an invasion. Are you ****ing retarded Warren?
Thats it, I’m going to clown college -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(September 29, 2022 05:39 PM)
For those who say negotiations are impossible, we have only to look at the talks that took place during the first month after the Russian invasion, when Russia and Ukraine tentatively agreed to a 15-point peace plan in talks mediated by Turkey. Details were not fully worked out, but the framework and the political will appeared to be there.
Russia was prepared to withdraw from all of Ukraine, except for Crimea and the self-declared republics in Donbas. Ukraine was ready to renounce future membership in NATO and adopt a position of neutrality between Russia and NATO.
The agreed framework provided for political transitions in Crimea and Donbas that both sides would accept and recognize, based on self-determination for the people of those regions. The future security of Ukraine was to be guaranteed by a group of other countries, but Ukraine would not host foreign military bases on its territory.
On March 27, President Zelenskyy told a national TV audience, "Our goal is obvious — peace and the restoration of normal life in our native state as soon as possible." He laid out his "red lines" for the negotiations in that televised speech to reassure his people he would not concede too much, and he promised them a referendum on the neutrality agreement before it would take effect.
Such early success for a peace initiative was no surprise to conflict resolution specialists. The best chance for a negotiated peace settlement is generally during the first months of a war. Each month a war rages on offers reduced chances for peace, as each side highlights the atrocities of the other, hostility becomes entrenched and positions harden.
The abandonment of that early peace initiative stands as one of the great tragedies of this conflict, and the full scale of that tragedy will only become clear over time as the war rages on and its dreadful consequences accumulate.
Ukrainian and Turkish sources have revealed that the U.K. and U.S. governments played decisive roles in torpedoing those early prospects for peace. During then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's "surprise visit" to Kyiv on April 9, he reportedly told Zelenskyy that the U.K. was "in it for the long run," that it would not be party to any agreement between Russia and Ukraine, and that the "collective West" saw a chance to "press" Russia and was determined to make the most of it.
The same message was reiterated by Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who followed Johnson to Kyiv on April 25 and made it clear that the U.S. and NATO were no longer just trying to help Ukraine defend itself but were now committed to using the war to "weaken" Russia. Turkish diplomats told retired British diplomat Craig Murray that these messages from the U.S. and Britain killed their otherwise promising efforts to mediate a ceasefire and a diplomatic resolution.
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/07/in-ukraine-rages-on-with-no-end-in-sight--peace-talks-are-essential/
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(September 30, 2022 02:14 AM)
All you’re saying it’s that if only they gave up parts of their country there would’ve been peace?
Parts of the country where civilians were being killed by Ukraine Nazis.
In any case it was a good deal and I proved you wrong where you disbelieved any peace deals were mentioned and the US, along with Britain, dissuaded them.
So you move the goalpost while keep on being a denial retard instead of being a man about being wrong.
I doubt Putin is the evil monster you make him out to be.
All sorts of things that the US supported in Ukraine led to Russia with the need to feel like they had to defend themselves.
Those who don't bother with looking up facts and just gaslight themselves and continue to swallow that bullshit are too easy to prove wrong.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
Robgoblin — 3 years ago(September 30, 2022 07:07 AM)
The whole nazis thing is just bullshit and there has been no proof of any widespread killings of civilians what so ever. Yes there were some nazis in the azov steel, but that is hardly a reason to invade the nation. And again there is no evidence that they have killed people. Maybe there have been crimes committed by one or two of them, who knows. But again, hardly a ****ing reason to invade a whole country. And if any of what you claim is true, they would’ve settled for that region. Which they didn’t.
And also, that region is STILL THE UKRAINE. Russia don’t have claim to it just cos there are some neo nazis there.
And yes, Putin is ****ing evil, period. Sometimes there are bad people in the world Warren. He is a dictator who wants to take another country by force, plain and simple.
Even the crazy speech he made as an excuse to invade, to rid the Ukraine of nazis was just so insane to begin with, it was almost like he didn’t even bother trying to make up a somewhat believable reason for the war. I mean Zelensky is Jewish ffs…
That alone should tell you something.
I’m not moving any goalposts.
I bet you are one of those who don’t even believe the atrocities, what was it Russia said about Butja massacre, paid actors? And you don’t think they are bad. Fucking hell Warren, you are brainwashed.
Oh and reading up? You mean that link you posted of a random webpage claiming things, with no sources except for “trust me bro”
half the article is lines like "he apparently did this, or said that" with no sources or proof. The authors do seem to hate the west tho… and there are so many idiotic claims in that article, like the reason would be the US and the west want the war to continue to weaken Russia… ? LOL what?? who wants the war to continue?? it ****ed up the entire world economy and not even mentioning the complete horror of war. Everyone just wants Russia to gtfo of Ukraine. And weakening Russia, why would we want that? I think everyone wants a functioning peaceful Russia, without a mad dictator perhaps.
and Biden isn’t responsible for this war. Nor have you proved me or anyone else wrong. Stop reading propaganda.
But all this aside, everything you claim. you forget one VERY important thing, Russia INVADED THE UKRAINE. Another sovereign country. So what peace talks, on what terms, do you think was ever offered if any? their surrender maybe.
Zelensky reached out to Putin numerous times, but he wouldnt even answer.
Russia had a plan to take the country piece by piece, cos in their minds it doesn't have a right to exist. get this through your thick skull, there never was any peace.
But they got their asses kicked when west aided with weapons and training.
And lastly, this war started back in 2014 when Russia wrongfully claimed and took the Crimea. I’d like to know how willing you’d be for “peace talks” when a country just flat out stole a part of your country.
Thats it, I’m going to clown college