Ouch!
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cryptoflovecraft — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 05:23 PM)
Should the world just turn a blind eye on Russian military aggression?
And what of American military aggression and the millions killed in the name of "making the world safe for democracy" i.e., US imperialism? In the last 20 years alone the US has invaded four countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya), ousted three governments (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya), created failed states in those countries, supported coups in other countries (Honduras in 2009, Ukraine in 2014, and various failed coups in countries like Iran and Venezuela) and drone bombed many other countries (killing hundreds of innocents including an American citizen). Russia has NOTHING on the US when it comes to military aggression and the taking of human lives.
We saw what allowing a madman to invade countries without resistance did with Hitler in the 1930s.
Yeah, right. They used that same Hitler comparison on Saddam Hussein in 2003. We HAD to stop Saddam - or else!!! Look at how THAT turned out…Russia can't even invade all of Ukraine, so I wouldn't worry about it invading Western Europe anytime soon. What I do worry about is the risk of nuclear war though, the more "we" (US/NATO) get involved in this war, the more likely this will become a full-fledged world war and then all bets are off and the worst case scenario could come true. Russia has said (many times) that if it feels its existence is threatened it will resort to using nuclear weapons. -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 07:48 PM)
Good points and I agree.
We can also add Ukraine to that long list of military conflict history of American involvement.
If Russia should prevail and "win," then we will add it to our losses.
If Ukraine should prevail and "win," we will ignore the high numbers of civilian losses and the displaced, as the pro war idiots are already doing, and claim it as a victory.
If things last that long.
The problem with those who are pro Uke is they are thick headed morons who really hate Russia and are so stubborn and dumb they will just go along with the bullshit reasons of pro war and will immediately label you as being a friend of Putin if you are not on their side and do not see Russia as an enemy at all and instead want to understand and explain them while being pro peace.
Those who are pro war are dumb.
Those who are anti war are smart.
Russia as the big bad monster are the lies those morons have convinced themselves with so they can keep on hating.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
Corwin — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 09:27 PM)
So you actually think that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine.
Just say it.
No more of your garbage skinhead/white nationalism whataboutism, which is what your post above is 100% about.
Just say that it was justified. If you can. -
cryptoflovecraft — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 09:55 PM)
So you actually think that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine.
The war is terrible and I wish it had never happened but most of the blame can be placed on NATO and Zelensky. NATO expansion, Ukraine's abandonment of the Minsk agreement and the continued bombardment of ethnic Russians in Donbass is what forced Putin to act on February 24.
Everyone from the late Stephen Cohen, America's #1 Russia expert, to Henry Kissinger to Noam Chomsky to other geopolitical experts warned us about what would happen if NATO kept expanding into Eastern Europe. Russia warned us
for years
. Apparently, our arrogant leaders weren't listening or didn't take Russia's pleas seriously.
No more of your garbage skinhead/white nationalism whataboutism, which is what your post above is 100% about.
I want to prevent a world war from breaking out, that's about it.
This has nothing to do with skinheads or white nationalism. -
Corwin — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 10:17 PM)
It absolutely does have something to do with it. You are echoing Russian disinformation and arguments being amplified by white nationalist (which you are) sources.
No one wants a world war, least over Ukraine, ffs.
And Russia didn't 'plea'. It threatened, it blustered. And then it invaded and now has annexed, an act illegal in international law.
One last thing. The Ukrainians should have some say in what happens to their territory. In your worldview or in that of your masters, they are pawns, to be brushed off the board when expedient. That terrible attitude itself should invalidate your perspective. -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(October 01, 2022 11:23 PM)
"…and the continued bombardment of ethnic Russians in Donbass is what forced Putin to act on February 24."
Of course you and all the other pro war idiots will ignore that.
None of you give one **** at all about any civilians involved in any wars anywhere because you are a bunch of uncaring assholes.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
MepDusa — 3 years ago(October 02, 2022 07:52 AM)
I'm not sure what your point is in bringing up those past American military conflicts is. We didn't start the wars in Syria and Libya. They were already at war and the United States became involved in attempt to prevent atrocities being committed by the other side. The Afghanistan war wasn't unprovoked. It was a response to 9/11. We can agree that the Iraq war never should have happened, but you can't equate the Iraq war and the Russia/Ukraine war while also being outraged by one, and defending the other. If you were ideologically consistent and you believe the Iraq war was as wrong as you claim, then you should also be taking that position with the Ukrainian conflict. If you don't then you're just not being honest.
Yeah, right. They used that same Hitler comparison on Saddam Hussein in 2003. We HAD to stop Saddam - or else!!!
Saddam wasn't invading countries in 2003, let alone unprovoked. Putin is doing just that. Yet you defend him. -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(October 02, 2022 03:50 PM)
"We can agree that the Iraq war never should have happened, but you can't equate the Iraq war and the Russia/Ukraine war…."
One can equate part of it.
We, America, attacked and invaded Iraq claiming it was for self defense purposes, which turned out to be a fallacy.
Russia invaded under their claims of self defense, which it was for in the Donbas region where Russian Separatists civilians were being killed by Ukraine forces where Ukraine did not honor the Minsk agreement.
Seeing that they did not, in some way one could say Ukraine brought this war upon themselves.
Leave the civilians alone and just say no to Nato!
As for the other part of the Iraq comparison, we have yet to see if Russia did invade under false pretenses.
"…while also being outraged by one, and defending the other."
No one is defending this war, except those who want them to keep on fighting which are also those who don't give a damn at all that civilians are losing their lives.
"Fight to the death," is so easy to proclaim while being safe and thousands of miles away from it.
Those of us who see the reality of Ukraine either losing this war or that it may be a prolonged one want peace and for some reason to the pro war morons, such as yourself, that must mean that we are on Russia's side, which is so ****ing wrong.
There would be no shame in surrendering which would save civilian lives.
Wanting peace/being anti war is rooting for Russia?
WTF is wrong with you narrow minded morons?
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
MepDusa — 3 years ago(October 02, 2022 10:59 PM)
Why on earth would you trust Putin for his stated reason for invasion? You don't trust the United States, but you trust Putin? How naive are you? You are not rooting for peace. If Russia didn't invade then there would have been peace. You are rooting for the aggressor, the country that started this war. You are pro-war.
There would be no shame in surrendering which would save civilian lives.
Russia not invading would have sparred civilian lives. If someone randomly punches someone and a fight breaks out as a result, you don't blame the person who got hit, you blame the person who started it. -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(October 03, 2022 03:48 PM)
Where is your proof for what you believe were Putin's reasons for invading?
Where is this stuff that says he is a madman crazed with world power domination?
Putin's reasons are a lot more clear or understandable then it was for the US to invade Iraq which was always an obvious lie since we knew the UN inspectors were not finding any WMD.
"If Russia didn't invade then there would have been peace."
You are so ****ing stupid.
Ukraine forces were bombing and killing civilians in the Donbas region, breaking the Minsk agreement so there already was war going on, you dumb ****head.
Stop being in denial of this FACT!
Do you deny that Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement and was bombing and killing civilians?
What else is Russia supposed to do but to feel they have to defend them?
Shouldn't Russia have the right to do that?
You pro war dumb ****s never address that and always find a way to avoid it by keeping your heads shoved up your asses.
No, you are pro war.
If you are not then you would agree that Ukraine surrendering, if not making a peace deal, would be the best thing for them right now.
I don't want Russia in there either while also recognizing that the killing of Donbas civilians was also wrong.
But with Russia there, it will most likely be a prolonged war where the odds favor them being the victor so why not just go ahead and surrender now and get it over with.
What good is it for the dead should their country somehow prevail?
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall -
cryptoflovecraft — 3 years ago(October 03, 2022 01:09 PM)
We didn't start the wars in Syria and Libya. They were already at war and the United States became involved in attempt to prevent atrocities being committed by the other side.
That's debatable. The Arab Spring that brought about "pro-democracy" riots and insurrections (and thousands of deaths) across the region was largely caused by the Iraq war. The US wasted no time in arming and funding the insurrectionists in Syria and Libya (many of whom were al Qaeda and ISIS), hoping to topple secular regimes that were hostile to US and Israeli interests. As an aside, these US/NATO-backed wars in the Middle East and North Africa created a massive refugee crisis with millions of migrants fleeing their war-torn homelands and flooding European cities as a result.
The Afghanistan war wasn't unprovoked. It was a response to 9/11.
And a foolish response it was considering that the Taliban played no role in the 9/11 attacks and had no prior knowledge of the attacks. Osama bin Laden, the alleged mastermind behind the attacks, was hiding out in Pakistan, a US ally, undetected for years. Saudi Arabia's role in 9/11 was far greater than Afghanistan's "role". The Taliban merely provided safe haven for some al Qaeda fighters but didn't actively fund or support the group.
What a waste of twenty years, billions of dollars and thousands of Afghan and American lives - and for what? So the Taliban could eventually retake the country and look like heroes to their people. And in a way they are heroes for driving out the invading Americans. -
WarrenPeace — 3 years ago(October 03, 2022 04:08 PM)
In the excellent Michael Moore documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11 he mentions a motivation for the invasion of Afghanistan is to support the building of a gas pipeline.
I'm not sure what the motive was but I seriously doubt it had to do with 911.
I wouldn't be surprised if it did have to do with energy since number one and two were oil businessmen and will want to make their corporate sponsors happy.
After the attacks and before I started to wonder if it could have been an inside job before seeing those suggestions, one thing I kept hoping the MSM would bring up but they never did was that the alleged master mind behind it, Bin Laden, was CIA trained when he was leader of the Taliban against the Russian invasion.
Trump did make the deal for us leaving Afghanistan, which gets overlooked, and Biden upheld the bargain.
I do not buy into the excuse they were taken by surprise of the take over because they had bad intel.
In any case I'm glad we're out of there.
And now Biden is making thousands or even perhaps millions of the poor ppl of Afghanistan suffer and die from his sanctions.
It's the Iraq sanctions all over again.
Making the ppl suffer and die instead of the leaders.
"Please vote to preserve the unique character of Warren…" - Robert Duvall