Why This Cannot Be Whitewashing.
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Forest
Bonesaw21 — 10 years ago(December 18, 2015 10:05 AM)
Whitewashing is when you fill the role of a non-white character with a white actor.
Like casting Keannu Reeves as a Samurai, or the older American westerns that cast white actors as native warriors.
This movie casts white actors in the role of white Americans in a story that just happens to take place in Japan.
Then to complain about how mental illness in Japan has a stigma against the people suffering from it(which is every bit as bad in North America) and to accuse this movie of not helping to promote awareness is illogical, because the very fact that it takes place in Japan's 'suicide forest' promotes awareness of the illnesses and how horrible they can be.
Maybe people need to stop constantly looking for things to be offended by and look at the situation logically, not emotionally.
Calling this movie whitewashing is intellectually dishonest, because it obviously is not.
Passing judgement on it before it has even been released is evey bit as illogical as there is no context to make criticisms.
Please, whatever you do, don't let your ignorance of something prevent you from having an opinion on it. -
inuimari — 10 years ago(December 23, 2015 12:05 AM)
It's nothing but attention seekers or just the PC culture extremists.
As much as I am getting tired of PC police, I am also getting tired of PC police police.Jesus. People are allowed to voice their dissatisfaction without being labelled as PC.
That being said, I agree that this ain't whitewashing. -
zachrollins — 10 years ago(January 07, 2016 01:35 PM)
Cool story. You also seem to "change teams" with every single effing comment you post, so I think the true "PC Police Police" are tired of you and your "PC Police Police.Policing."
Seriously, are you incapable of standing on one side of an argument?
You: " I hate cabbage. It's disgusting."
Me: "What man? Cabbage is awesome. Really good for you, too."
You: "You're right, I love cabbage. I'm tired of people not being able to express their love for cabbage."
This example may seem out of context here, but those whom have seen your collective postings can easily spot a trend, I believe.
We must not allow the "PC Police" to comment because their comments are, by design, dishonest and destructive.
Here's my arrogant and unsubstantiated take on things:
Regarding the PC culture: Acute Hypersensitivity.
Regarding yourself: NPD.
Regarding myself: Cool smiley face with shades emoji -
BaltimoreStrong — 10 years ago(January 09, 2016 01:53 PM)
The problem is, when you allow the PC Police to run amok, they end up actually doing real detriment to society, such as creating racial tension like what we have here, for no reason. And so it's not the fault of the "PC Police Police" to call them out on their crap.
-
ScorpionTDC — 10 years ago(December 24, 2015 08:31 AM)
This movie casts white actors in the role of white Americans in a story that just happens to take place in Japan.
To be fair, Hollywood DOES go out of its way to avoid any minority lead, and not just in terms of race either (how many LGBT leads are there, for example? Now ignore all the films that 100% completely and totally center around their sexuality, how many now?) Casting directors and studio heads are pretty notorious for being highly discriminatory (Se7en, for example, wasn't allowed to have two black leads as originally intended) This almost definitely perpetuates that system, but it in itself isn't super racist, if that makes sense (setting an American film with an American lead in Japan isn't racist at all. The casting system in America as a
whole
is) But that kinda goes for American films in general, I don't think this deserves much more criticism. It's not straight up whitewashing. And yeah, I agree that it's not worse than whitewashing (which is basically Blackface/Yellowface without the makeup)
I think it'd be more effective to target the primary criticism at Hollywood in general, and only bringing up specific films as examples of it, rather than targeting the film and not targeting the system itself.
I also agree that it's not remotely stigmatizing the suicide stuff at all.
Death Awaits (Horror forum)
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Death_Awaits/index/ -
le_papillon — 10 years ago(December 26, 2015 10:26 PM)
You don't get to invent new meanings for words whenever you feel like it. Nice try though.
Whitewashing isn't just in reference to race, it also indicates the deliberate concealing or glossing over of unpleasant facts. Trivializing suicide as a serious issue in modern Japanese society to entertain Western audiences is whitewashing. The racial makeup of the main cast is also unfortunate and just makes things worse but it's not the only problem. -
inuimari — 10 years ago(December 27, 2015 12:35 AM)
Trivializing suicide as a serious issue in modern Japanese society to entertain Western audiences is whitewashing.
I'm Japanese and we don't view suicide as a serious issue.
But yeah, thanks for being aware about the issue surrounding whitewashing. -
maintiger86 — 10 years ago(January 06, 2016 06:17 PM)
suicide isn't consider an issue to a lot of them because many of them still hold feudal beliefs of suicide being honorable. A way to save oneself and family from disgrace by a shameful act in their mind its considered a noble sacrifice and is even acceptable by the victims family members. the bodies they did recover they discovered most of the people who go in there to die have lost their jobs, or are stuck in crippling financial debt that the system only makes worse.
-
magentamarzipane — 10 years ago(January 07, 2016 11:27 AM)
Trivializing suicide as a serious issue in modern Japanese society to entertain Western audiences is whitewashing.
How many movies are made every year that feature a murder or many murders? Do these trivialize murder for the sake of entertainment ? One could make the case that murder is the absolute worst crime possible but it is played for laughs in films and on TV upon occasion and no one seems to fret about it much. Hell, nearly every film that is not a slapstick comedy aimed at 7-year olds will feature something bad happening to some character or there is not much of a story to tell. But every bad thing that can happen in a film has happened to someone in real life; should we stop including all bad things because they might trivialize someone's pain or trigger bad feelings?
I'm chronically suicidal myself and I must say this film will not make my life or any other suicidal person's life one iota worse. Of course I imagine it could be objected that since I am a chronically suicidal
American
I am probably incorrectly appropriating a minority culture by presuming that a chronically suicidal
Japanese
person will most likely not be all that affected by a stupid horror film either. -
quillpen5 — 9 years ago(May 28, 2016 11:21 PM)
Hey, you probably know that if you are feeling suicidal, you should talk to someone. But seriously, even if you want to talk to me, a random stranger, feel free to email at any time. I dont mind if it would help you feel better, and I am a good listener.
-
bcjester — 10 years ago(January 09, 2016 03:01 PM)
indicates the deliberate concealing or glossing over of unpleasant facts.
I don't know. Pretty sure this little bit right here is just called telling a lie to hide the truth.
Trivializing suicide as a serious issue in modern Japanese society to entertain Western audiences is whitewashing.
They trivialize it? Please explain how?(I just watched the movie)
The racial makeup of the main cast is also unfortunate and just makes things worse but it's not the only problem.
A total of two white actors, and one Native (the guide) are the main cast. The twin is played by the same actress so I wont count that. Everyone else in the entire film save for 2 or 3 scenes is Native.
Truthfully the only thing I didn't like about the movie overall (and I did enjoy it) was how they strayed away from the typical type of ghost story that comes from those lands. To me those are more scary, but I understand most Western audiences aren't really spooked by Onryu and such. -
Stiles5339 — 10 years ago(January 03, 2016 06:11 PM)
Precisely. Those complaining are just complaining to complain. If that forest had 100% suicide statistics in favor of just one race or just one gender, that would be one thing. But, to my knowledge the race and gender of person who commits suicide in said forest isn't a 100% statistic - it's diverse.
Plus the reason they went with the lead character they did is not only does she need to deal with personal issues, but she's even more of a stranger in a "strange" (different) land which brings in challenges of it's own. -
nancy-fuentes — 10 years ago(January 07, 2016 07:37 AM)
I love horror films so I was interested in The Forest because it looked like a supernatural horror flick. Now, that I have read the posts on different threads on whitewashingI think I will watch a documentary on Aokigahara before seeing the movie. I agree that the movie could've gone to a higher level if the main actress were asian (even though I like Natalie Dormer) and touched on the actual issue of high suicide rates in Japan. Check out this video on the real forest of Aokigahara in Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FDSdg09df8
Now, other people have also made valid points. Some people are saying that it's irrelevant because it's based on the supernatural perspective of two outsiders one Euro-American living in Japan and another Euro-American traveling to Japan in search of her sister. The movie is not based on a local perspective and the reality of the forest which is a current spot for suicides (like Niagara Falls or the Golden Gate Bridge in North America).
Again, we go back to the original point of whitewashing. Why was the movie based on a supernatural, foreign, Euro-American perspective? So, I do see the whitewashing. The movie didn't have to be a documentary but it could've stayed a little more true to reality. The movie could've been a psychological horror, psychological thriller, horror drama, crime thriller, or horror thriller film (Nightcrawler, Silence of the Lambs, Orphan).
Plenty of foreign people live and work in Japan and I'm sure that white people are raised there too. Soit is a possibility that a white person of European descent would understand the forest and Japan's high suicide rates. Personally, I think the film could've been enhanced if the actress were Asian AND if the genre weren't supernatural. Even if the actress were Asian, it wouldn't touch the very real issue of high suicide rates in Japan because it's a supernatural horror flick. The genre itself evades the current reality of the forest and what it represents. I guess supernatural elements could remain in the movie if they were tied to a psychological thriller making it unclear if it's hallucinations or real supernatural events (The Shining, Butterfly Effect, They).
I can't really provide a thorough critique yet because I haven't seen the movie. I will see if my perspective changes after I watch the movie. -
essex9999 — 10 years ago(January 11, 2016 03:01 PM)
Personally, I think the film could've been enhanced if the actress were Asian AND if the genre weren't supernatural. Even if the actress were Asian, it wouldn't touch the very real issue of high suicide rates in Japan because it's a supernatural horror flick. The genre itself evades the current reality of the forest and what it represents. I guess supernatural elements could remain in the movie if they were tied to a psychological thriller making it unclear if it's hallucinations or real supernatural events (The Shining, Butterfly Effect, They).
Personally, I think the film could've been enhanced if the main character hadn't behaved like such an idiot, but, strangely enough, Jason Zada didn't consult me.
Aokigahara Forest is a very creepy place because it's a common site for suicide and also because it has associations in folklore with demons, that is, the supernatural. Presumably, Zada read or heard about it and thought it would make a great setting for a supernatural horror film. He is American; I don't think there's any way he could have made an authentic film from a Japanese perspective. Thus, it was entirely appropriate to make the main character American.
Americans are allowed to make movies that are set abroad and use features of the local culture. Other countries can do the same with American culture - no one's stopping them.
On a side note, how would it help if the lead actress were "Asian" (as I've seen several comments suggest) if she were, say, Korean or Chinese? Or should the casting call have been limited exclusively to Japanese-American actresses, or Japanese actresses who are not only fluent in English but speak with a light enough accent to be easily understood? Somehow, I don't think that would go over very well with the easily offended, either.
This is the dangerous path people are traveling when they start parsing out cultural correctness. -
nepentheberyl — 9 years ago(July 20, 2016 04:10 AM)
That would have been an entirely different movie though wouldnt it?
I mean, it's not a great movie as is, the entire second half needs a makeover to make it more than just a half decent movie. I and many others have offered better alternatives, whether under the cover of "speculation" or just outright criticism.
And its not like i wouldnt love to see your version of the movie as well.
Its just thatits essentially a different movie. Its not the PC version of this movie. Having been annoyed when i heard it was being white washed, and then actually just watching it, more out of curiosity of the setting and horror potential, it didnt satisfy either. The horror potential was wasted and an Asian actress would have meant a different perspective/history/plot.
That is not to say that whitewashing isnt a problem, and needs to be changed in Hollywood, i just think this movie wasnt it. In general we need more mature and diverse movies in Hollywood and on TV. You get more of that now on TV with HBO and Netflix, but not yet in movies. I was one of those teens that ended up watching anime just to get away from our particular predictable tropes. You have three factions of movies now coming from Hollywood; the kids/comedic/romantic/action no need to think moveis, the kids movies that actually make you think and are creative or inspirational, or the superhero movies that tend to make a statement on society and their reaction to stand out heros and villians. Hollywood needs a looooottt of work when it comes to movies, not just in the whitewashing territory.