Do We Ever See Why Henry Loved Anne?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Wolf Hall
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(April 23, 2015 06:52 PM)
I'm on the third episode. There have been some flashes of charm, but Anne Boleyn is mostly just surly and unpleasant. She was a fresh young damsel, that could trip and go. She laughed and charmed. What was the draw in this portrayal? Why would Henry split the world in two for this woman?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein -
njgill — 10 years ago(April 23, 2015 09:05 PM)
She was the first (and probably only) woman to tell him "
No
." He couldn't stand not getting his own way - that's one reason he married Catherine of Aragon.
And the Reformation got him a
LOT
of money, which he sorely needed. -
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(April 24, 2015 04:11 AM)
No, I don't mean historically, I mean the character portrayal in this show. And there was a lot more to their historical relationship than Anne Boleyn denying Henry's advances.
In this show, the character is thoroughly unlikeable and seems to have no redeeming qualities. I can't figure out why a man would upend his entire society for this woman.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein -
austendw — 10 years ago(April 24, 2015 11:48 AM)
In this show, the character is thoroughly unlikeable and seems to have no redeeming qualities. I can't figure out why a man would upend his entire society for this woman.
You're right. This, I think, is a massive fault. We need to appreciate, however fleetingly, what made Anne Boleyn appealing in the first place. The historical Anne Boleyn came back to England trailing elegance, French sophistication, glamour; she was
trs chic
; she made heads turn. However the Anne we get here is spoilt, stupid and petulant. There isn't a shred of sexual chemistry between her and Henry at any point so her later fall doesn't feel as if it's from a very great height; it's really rather underwhelming.
I'm afraid I blame the casting. I don't think Clare Foy was right for the role. Now had Jessica Raine - who played Jane Rochford - swapped roles with Clare Foy, then I think we might have had something far, far more substantial on screen.
Call me Ishmael -
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(May 02, 2015 11:12 AM)
I'm afraid I blame the casting. I don't think Clare Foy was right for the role.
I won't fault the actress - I haven't seen her in anything else that I know of. I don't think anyone would be able to make a compelling Anne with the writing and direction. Historical Anne wasn't a great physical beauty until she turned her charm on a person.
The historical Anne Boleyn came back to England trailing elegance, French sophistication, glamour; she was trs chic; she made heads turn.
Exactly. The character doesn't need to be
likable
, per se, but she has to be able to draw attention on her own merits - charm, sophistication, elegance, wit (especially wit) - rather than just have everyone kowtow to her because she's the king's favorite.
so her later fall doesn't feel as if it's from a very great height; it's really rather underwhelming.
^^This.^^ It's almost a foregone conclusion from the minute we meet her (even looking at the show as simply fiction and not knowing the history).
Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier -
austendw — 10 years ago(May 07, 2015 02:09 PM)
The character doesn't need to be likable, per se, but she has to be able to draw attention on her own merits - charm, sophistication, elegance, wit (especially wit) -
I should fess up, of course, and admit that last summer I saw the stage adaptation of
Wolf Hall
and
Bring Up the Bodies
in London, and Lydia Leonard played Anne exactly the way you describe. When she walked on stage you were rivetted: she was suave, sharp-witted, spiky, arrogant (her delivery of the name "Cremuel" positively dripped disdain) and magnetic. She wasn't what you'd call sympathetic, but she had real presence - a force to be reckoned with; you knew
exactly
how and why Henry was captivated.
For me, that performance was a very hard act to follow.
Call me Ishmael -
peggygeordie — 10 years ago(April 28, 2015 05:40 PM)
I agree. Her looks don't matter but she was supposed to have great wit and charm, of which we have seen nothing - just petulance and hostility to almost everyone. She doesn't even seem to bother with charming Henry.
We have also seem nothing about her genuine desire to advance the Protestant cause.
She's been the weak link in the show because it's inconceivable that - as portrayed - she could gain as much power over Henry as she did, especially when he is portrayed as intelligent and we see nothing of that in her tantrums and constant flouncing out of the room. -
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(May 02, 2015 11:30 AM)
Hey, peggygeordie.
I agree. Her looks don't matter but she was supposed to have great wit and charm, of which we have seen nothing - just petulance and hostility to almost everyone. She doesn't even seem to bother with charming Henry.
Exactly. Why would a king who can really have anyone he wants even look twice at her? Why would she even have the opportunity to turn him down?
We have also seem nothing about her genuine desire to advance the Protestant cause.
This was one of my very favorite things about
The Tudors
. I can't remember another portrayal of Anne Boleyn where this aspect of her character was given any air time. She also had a falling out with Thomas Cromwell regarding where the money from the dissolution of the monasteries should go - Cromwell wanted them to go to the Crown to be dispensed as patronage to shore up support for the dynasty, while Anne wanted the money to go for education and the support of the poor and didn't support wholesale dissolution. I love the line in
The Tudors
regarding Henry, "He fell in love with
me
. He respected
me
, and my opinions."
She's been the weak link in the show because it's inconceivable that - as portrayed - she could gain as much power over Henry as she did, especially when he is portrayed as intelligent and we see nothing of that in her tantrums and constant flouncing out of the room.
I'm assuming that's how the character is portrayed in the book. I haven't read it.
Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier -
Raysand — 10 years ago(April 29, 2015 05:35 AM)
I know what you are trying to get at, but perhaps in real life Anne had no redeeming values other than a flirtatious, pretty face that knew how to ensnare men with her allure. The actress who plays Anne is very beautiful and many men don't care how shallow, and unlikeable a woman is as long as she's beautiful. We know from the history that Henry wants a son and Anne had promised him one, we also know from looking at her as portrayed in the series that she's beautiful. Do we need to know the mental intricacies then? Perhaps there were none other than a very pretty, flirtatious, witty woman playing hard to get on one side and on the other, a capricious, megalomaniac accustomed to getting whatever he wanted come what may and then to complete the sick cycle enablers like the despicable Cromwell being able to read the mind of his master and anticipating his every move.
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OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(May 02, 2015 11:33 AM)
I don't agree, but I'm glad you are happy with the portrayal. And I'm serious, not trying to sound snarky (I know it's hard to get that across sometimes in text).
Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier -
Moss_Garden — 10 years ago(April 24, 2015 08:21 AM)
The interesting thing about this show (and book) and the portrayal of Henry, Anne, their relationship, and all the rest, is that it's entirely through Cromwell's perspective. Cromwell wasn't there to see the beginning of their courtship, he likely didn't witness many (or any) of Henry and Anne's intimate moments. He wasn't part of the inner circle that was invited to socialize with them. He dealt with matters of business, and in this show he only ever seems to see Anne when she summons him for a specific reason. So what we see is the cold, calculating, ambitious side of Anne and how Cromwell perceives her - as an enemy or an ally.
Formerly Nothin_but_the_Rain -
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(May 02, 2015 11:37 AM)
But Cromwell was a "creature" of the Boleyns. Anne Boleyn used charm even on Wolsey to get her way. I can't see her just being unrelievedly petulant for no reason to a man like Cromwell who can help her. I also can't imagine Cromwell not witnessing how much Henry was smitten with Anne when even Chapuys commented on their ups and downs, fights and passionate make-up PDA. They weren't circumspect in their relationship.
Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier -
rideyourgreenbike — 10 years ago(April 25, 2015 09:39 AM)
I enjoyed the series as a whole. But Clare Foy's portrayal of Anne Boleyn was totally charmless and irritating. The interactions between Henry and Anne were equally puzzling. I am not sure whether this was a casting issue, or the director's miscalculation.
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maggimae83 — 10 years ago(April 29, 2015 06:47 AM)
I agree that the casting is part of the problem, however, Henry's main motivation is to get rid of Katherine and find a wife who can provide him with a male heir. It's a pity that he, or his minions did not do their research regarding Anne's character.
maggimae83 -
Mildred_Fierce — 10 years ago(April 29, 2015 04:14 PM)
I think it became a battle of wills and Henry believed most of all that he had absolute power and could do whatever he wanted. It could have been another woman. He was intent on having a male heir and Anne was a woman that he desired, more than loved. He couldn't have her as a mistress and couldn't marry her so he revolted against Rome because he wanted to have his way. If it had been a great love he wouldn't have sent her to the tower.
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FeydRautha — 10 years ago(May 01, 2015 01:53 AM)
Many people on this thread are wondering how Henry could fall in love with such a spoilt, nasty, petulant brat. I've had friends (most usually guys) who fall in love with absolute ball-breakers who practically lead them around on a leash and are openly rude to his friends. But the guy can't explain why he's so taken with this woman, it must be love.
I think Claire Foy's doing a fine job, she's just portraying Anne differently from what we've seen before. It could be a director's suggestion.
And, getting back to the question in the thread title, my high school History teacher gave us the impression that Henry was thinking with his "Little Henry" when he fell for Anne. She certainly crooked him into marriage by A) not jumping into bed with him when he first expressed his interest and B) hinted at her fertility. He desperately wanted a male heir.
DAD!! Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet!!! -
OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl — 10 years ago(May 02, 2015 11:42 AM)
I've had friends (most usually guys) who fall in love with absolute ball-breakers who practically lead them around on a leash and are openly rude to his friends. But the guy can't explain why he's so taken with this woman, it must be love.
I've heard of this but I've never seen it in action, certainly not for a decade-long relationship.
I think Claire Foy's doing a fine job, she's just portraying Anne differently from what we've seen before. It could be a director's suggestion.
I'm not casting aspersions on the actress; I assume that this is the way the character is written in the book.
And, getting back to the question in the thread title, my high school History teacher gave us the impression that Henry was thinking with his "Little Henry" when he fell for Anne. She certainly crooked him into marriage by A) not jumping into bed with him when he first expressed his interest and B) hinted at her fertility. He desperately wanted a male heir.
That's the thing, though. This Anne displays no qualities that would make Henry's little henry stand up and take notice. I'm not talking physical appearance. She just isn't intriguing at all, just caustic.
Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier