How is the "Two State Solution" a Solution?
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Mars_atax — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 08:58 AM)
"I'm not seeing much of a difference between waiting 'till they change their mind' and 'till they become civilised' tbhboth seem to employ the tactics of hiding under some blankets and hoping things turn out OK."
No, people can be more active. For example, every time the UN, the leftists, the Europeans, or the Third World condemn Israel for anything, they ought to balance it with pressure on the Palestinians to get them to abandon their culture of hate and death. -
twelve_bar — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:21 AM)
Until the Muslim world gets well past its hysterical condemnations of Israel merely for existing, there is no "final solution" no matter how much the left wants one.
So your theory is to wait until Muslim people just change their mind about Israel?
No, because waiting implies that I'm expecting that to happen which I'm not. What I'm saying is that if the Arab/Muslim world wants peace with Israel, it is up to them to stop advocating and plotting for the destruction of Israel.
They aren't likely to do that in our lifetimes, but who knows what the next thousand or so years will bring? -
MikeMonger — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:16 AM)
It's really quite simple. Unless the Palestinians are nominally independent, Israel is an apartheid state, by definition of the term,
Israel's issue is that it's been trying to set up a Palestinian bantustan for appearances sake, but nobody's buying it.
So, they've gone with plan bthe race card. Calling Israel an apartheid state (even though in reality it is) makes you automatically antisemitic.
in fact blacks did better before affirmative action.
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twelve_bar — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:24 AM)
It's really quite simple. Unless the Palestinians are nominally independent, Israel is an apartheid state, by definition of the term,
For the sake of argument, let's say your terminology is the most correct one.
Better an apartheid state than a non-existent state, which is the goal of Israel's Arabic/Muslim neighbors, particularly the ones that Israel is being asked to give a "state" to. Better that Jews be protected from Muslims in Israel than that Israel be wiped off the map.
What other nation is asked to sacrifice its own existence in the name of peace? -
MikeMonger — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:30 AM)
I asked yesterday what we should be calling a system where the rights of citizenship are granted or denied based on ethnicity. Mostly what I got was responses like yoursscrew the Muzzies and let Israel do whatever it wants.
Apparently, to people like you, the best long term plan for Israel's continued survival is to keep hostility with the 150 million people surrounding it at a fever pitch.
To me, that just seem short sighted. But whatever.
in fact blacks did better before affirmative action.
Visf1 1/18/12 -
twelve_bar — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:34 AM)
Apparently, to people like you, the best long term plan for Israel's continued survival is to keep hostility with the 150 million people surrounding it at a fever pitch.
Are serious? It's the Muslims who are keeping hostilities at a fever pitch. If the anti-Israel terrorists stop trying to wipe Israel off the map, peace would be instant. -
MikeMonger — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:38 AM)
Please. Israel is doing its fair share to keep relations hostile. Sending Mossad agents into Arab countries to engage in assassinations. Treating Arabs like conquered subjects. Blowing the crap out of whoever they want whenever they want.
If you honestly believe the provocations have been unidirectional, you're either ignorant or delusional. Israel has been giving for better than its been getting for 40 years now.
Think about it. If you were an Arab, how would you feel about a neighbor that treats most of its Arabs as untermensch?
in fact blacks did better before affirmative action.
Visf1 1/18/12 -
Mars_atax — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 09:04 AM)
"Think about it. If you were an Arab, how would you feel about a neighbor that treats most of its Arabs as untermensch?"
Israeli Arabs have rights, vote, and serve in parliament. A better question to ask is: given that the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza led to a Hamas-ruled rocket base, how should Israelis feel about the same thing happening on the West Bank? -
Adina_IMDb-March-2006 — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:49 AM)
Also, tell MikeMonger that Israel has a million native Russian speakers in it who largely support Putin (and vote in Russia).
He has a vested interest in seeing Israel protect herself.
Formerly Rippling_River - Bio Link:
Adina_IMDb-March-2006 -
Adina_IMDb-March-2006 — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:52 AM)
Also, Israel's second highest official in the Israeli government was born and raised in the Soviet Union. When he says hi to Putin, they speak in their shared native Russian.
Formerly Rippling_River - Bio Link:
Adina_IMDb-March-2006 -
Mars_atax — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 09:01 AM)
"Unless the Palestinians are nominally independent, Israel is an apartheid state, by definition of the term"
Wrong. The Palestinians are under occupation on the West Bank, just as Germany and Japan were at the end of WWII. And as soon as the Palestinians get the culture of militarism and hate out of their systems the way the Germans and Japanese did, they too can become independent.
"Calling Israel an apartheid state (even though in reality it is) makes you automatically antisemitic."
No, but a person like you, who says I am not a true American because I said something you dislike,
IS
anti-Semitic. -
Slow_Coming_Warbird — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:19 AM)
You really don't think ahead do you?
Suffice to say that when the Trump administration tells the Palestinians
to go screw themselves, the results will be interesting to say the least.
"Without education and intellectualism there is no morality." -
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MikeMonger — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:25 AM)
The op doesn't understand that not only is Israel NOT the only ally we have in the region, but is in many ways not even the most important one.
Maybe he'll get it once the rest of the Middle East moves into the Russian sphere of influence and they do stuff like price oil in something other than dollars.
in fact blacks did better before affirmative action.
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twelve_bar — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:28 AM)
Maybe he'll get it once the rest of the Middle East moves into the Russian sphere of influence
Then won't we be happy that we have a president who talks to the Russians instead of the constant stonewalling and hostility toward the Russians under Obama/Clinton? -
MikeMonger — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 08:48 AM)
Obama worked with Putin by heaping sanctions on Russia?
What's hilarious is that you're so much of a partisan hack that you thought claiming the other party did the same thing was a valid argument.
in fact blacks did better before affirmative action.
Visf1 1/18/12 -
twelve_bar — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 10:53 AM)
Obama worked with Putin by heaping sanctions on Russia?
He only "heaped" those sanctions when he thought it would leave Trump an even bigger mess to clean up. While our foreign policy was being run by Obama and Clinton, this was their stance toward Russia: