If being gay/trans isn't a psychiatric illness, then what's "normal?"
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tokyojapan-59350 — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 01:59 PM)
Their ability to reproduce(for trans if they keep their birth sex organs) has nothing much to do with their lack of social roles.
Now we're getting into the topic of group biology or herd biology and what exactly constitutes "normal human relationship behavior" and this is where it gets dicey. I'm not hitting your head with a religious book here and wagging my finger.
What I'm trying to explain to you is that THE SECULAR MEDICAL COMMUNITY used to think this way and many still do.
But you have a very relativist sort of view. And the problem if you're right is the point I made "what is normal?"
Doctors used to use common social roles as the "norm."
After all monogamous or semi-monogamous heterosexual relationships have been the norma for thousands of yrs save with kings or moguls and the like with lots of concubines, that and hookers.
You misunderstand. Nobody here is judging anybody or anything.
I'm just trying to ask the question "what measure stick do we use to define normal secular biological behavior?"
You seem to not have a measuring stick at all, which, as I pointed out would lead to ALL KINDS of open questions. Generally speaking we think of MS, cancer, etc as genetic disease. Why? Because they challenge or inhibit the general function and survival of the organism and also to a greater extent the GROUP of that organism.
Reproduction seems to have been the measuring stick secular biologists and medical doctors used to judge what was normal or not. But you seem to have thrown that to the wind in some kind of revisionist sort of philosophical judgement. Again, not saying that's wrong but if traditional social roles are meaningless then what solid criteria do we use to judge behavior? Why are bipolars and schizos abnormal? If what you are saying is true there are "no normals" and the dude on the street corner who's "high functioning" and who supports himself by scrapping metal from dumpsters(I know a dude in New Orleans like that, actually makes about $600/week doing it) but otherwise talks to the voices in his head or has violent mood swings and sleeps under a freeway bridge is he normal? -
disturbedtool68 — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 01:00 PM)
I'm going to miss watching confused liberal haters struggle with such innocuous things such as someone else's sexual preference
Of course there's always the chance that the OP is struggling with
his
sexual preference, which would explain a lotIgnorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand
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CactusBraBurning — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 01:21 PM)
heh.one thing I learned early on from the internet was that people are into disgusting sexual stuff behind closed doors.
A lot of "professional" men are the worstthey do all kinds of sick stuff because they usually have the means to do it. And you'd never know it in person because nobodyyy talks about it in their communities.
Look at Utah for example; one of the most religious states and they watch the most porn and the sickest stuff.
Something you consider to be sick..might be more common than you think. -
grungyhappycat — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 01:52 PM)
Gender dysphoria, I think, is still considered a mental illness. It's treated with medications, therapy, and transitioning. Transitioning is the most effective treatment at the moment, boasting the lowest suicide rate (41% of transsexuals commit suicide - highest suicide rate in the gay community), which is why most doctors go down that route. Not all transsexuals decide to transition though. But those that do decide to transition undergo extensive therapy before being prescribed hormones. Sex reassignment surgery takes over a year of living in the proposed gender + even more intense therapy.
As you can see by some of the replies you have received, even those accepting of homosexuals have a hard time understanding transsexuals. This is because transsexuals make up a very, very tiny percentage of the population (0.4% in the US). They are often misunderstood and thus mislabeled (perverts, freaks, pedos, etc). Mainly due to ignorance. Even you, OP, said you would rather not have them in locker rooms where there are children present, because children are impressionable.
You say transsexuals are complex people to understand. That's somewhat true. But they are exactly like everyone else, really. They laugh, they fall in love, they have jobs, families and friends, etc. The only thing that's different about transsexuals from us "normal" people, is that they don't identify with their birth gender, and so, to achieve a better life, a happier life, they choose to live their lives as the gender they feel they should be. That's really it.
What's considered normal changes throughout time as society continues to evolve. Maybe someday transsexuality won't be considered abnormal, or a mental illness, or maybe it still will be. I guess we'll see. Always remember to treat people with respect. -
NostalgiasForGeeks — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 01:57 PM)
Just to clarify, when I said that transgenders are different, I meant that homosexuality = orientation, transgender = gender. Two different things, though in some ways related.
*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours -
tokyojapan-59350 — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 02:05 PM)
Transgenderism was, until very recently considered a mental disorder by the Diagnostic Manual of the American Psychiatric Association.
The same for homosexuality since 1973.
I'm just asking the question if we aren't going to use group survival or reproduction of the species as a measuring stick of normal sexual behavior then what do we use?
There's no religious intent to the original message. This is strictly a medical question. -
NostalgiasForGeeks — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 02:10 PM)
How is reproduction a measuring stick of "normal sexual behavior" when blowjobs, masturbation, condoms, the use of birth control, pulling out, etc are all considered normal sexual behaviors?
You keep saying that's the "measuring stick", but it isn't and hasn't been ever.
*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours -
tokyojapan-59350 — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 02:20 PM)
when blowjobs, masturbation, condoms, the use of birth control, pulling out, etc are all considered normal sexual behaviors?
These were considered "deviant"(sociological term) sex behaviors for HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES..
Gay couples weren't even lumped in -
NostalgiasForGeeks — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 02:25 PM)
Yet they have nothing to do with reproduction. So clearly by your own standards they don't register on the "stick of normal sexual behavior".
Again if reproduction is the measuring stick for normal sexual BEHAVIOR, then all the things I listed above are abnormal (as you just said they are).
So it seems for some odd reason.. your test of normality really only applies to the behavior of homosexuals. Or at least, for some reason you're only concerned about that aspect of it. I kind of doubt you've ever been in a fierce debate with someone over the abnormal sexual behaviors between straight couples.
*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours -
CactusBraBurning — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 03:09 PM)
sex = biology
gender =social constructbrainwashing. "Feminine" and "masculine"
I wear pants..am I a transgender?
Trump wears make up, is he gay?
Do you actually 'like' what you like or are you told what to like?
You should judge people based on their inner beauty instead of whatever gender they present. Who gives a beep. I've met some awful so called 'socially normal' people in my life. -
GhostPepperHot — 9 years ago(February 13, 2017 03:42 PM)
Normal? You are only normal to you. An individual cannot represent an average or a statistical mean of a population. A person is a whole, not a percentage of the "group."
That is what is wrong with people. They try to belong to a group and never know what they are to themselves. No wonder they are so easily misled to disaster.
Disaster is normal for fools. -
Darkramj — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 07:47 AM)
First, the DSM is a guide to diagnosing/categorizing the nature of a problem someone has in their life. It's not a tool for determining who has what problem.
Second, a person's functionality determines whether or not they are in need of some form of corrective action in the closest thing to 'normal' that you're looking for.
https://www.omh.ny.gov/omhweb/Childservice/mrt/global_assessment_functioning.pdf
That's one typical reference, mental health professionals are trained to use discretion and observationnot checklists. If you are checking off symptoms in a book to see what people 'have' when they aren't suffering or reporting any dysfunction, you're doing it wrong.
If you can build and maintain healthy relationships, wash yourself, hold a job, etc. it doesn't matter if you believe that you're a werewolf. Normal in this context is determined by one's ability to manage their life in public and in private, not how they view themselves, others or their reality.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it. G.K. Chesterton -
TakeUpReel — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 09:52 AM)
Homosexuality was on the APA'S Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorder list for DECADES until I think it was 1973, when it was taken off, supposedly under political pressure.
I'm not exactly sure of the reason that it was "taken off" the list, but I hope it was due to actual research into the subject and not because of political pressure.
At one time, we thought leeches and other forms of blood-letting were proper cures for various problems. Luckily, we don't think that anymore. At one time, mental illness was though to be demonic possession. Thankfully, we don't think that any more. My point is that it shouldn't matter what we thought in the past. We should constantly challenge our pre-conceived notions.
Homosexuals serve no reproductive purpose, nor do trans.
So what? Neither do heterosexual couples that are sterile, or elderly couples, or
.
I'm not sure about your use of the word "normal", but homosexuality is "natural" by definition (since it is found is numerous species (in nature)not just "humans").
If vampires hate "plus signs" - imagine how they feel about the "square root" symbol.