Maybe, Chx has forgotten her email already
-
sailor-J — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 12:58 AM)
Oh PD your rants defending her are bordering on pathetic. Your insistence on trying to call me a liar for two things that are 100% true also are entertaining but then again most entertainment is also fiction.
There was a while where she was posting verses and attaching meanings that were way off. Often just posting the few verses before and after cleared up her nonsense She got pretty frustrated and even began one post with a note at the top that she didn't want to hear anything about context this time.
She also liked to ignore the original languages and base her ridicule on English words and got pretty upset when these differences were pointed out.
One of my favorites was when she went on one day about how the Bible was a lie because in John 14 it says that if we ask anything in Jesus' name that he will do it and this to her meant we had a magic ticket to get whatever we wanted as long as we "asked for it in JESUS NAME!" Since we couldn't pray up a million bucks the our God was a fraud So when pointing out that the word in the Greek for "name" used is "onoma" and isn't quite what she was saying she got all upset because I was ignoring that it clearly said "name" Here's the deal the English word name is worth looking in to. (As a side note one of the most exciting things to do is to slow out Bible study down and look at the original meanings of these words Scripture tells us to study to show ourselves approved- workmen who need not be ashamed which s perfect because any shame she was looking for was quickly gone away here soon) So "onoma" - here- this is from Strongs: "ónoma name; (figuratively) the manifestation or revelation of someone's character, i.e. as distinguishing them from all others. Thus "praying in the name of Christ" means to pray as directed (authorized) by Him, bringing revelation that flows out of being in His presence. "Praying in Jesus' name" therefore is not a "religious formula" just to end prayers (or get what we want)!
["According to Hebrew notions, a name is inseparable from the person to whom it belongs, i.e. it is something of his essence. Therefore, in the case of the God, it is specially sacred".
So as we can see a basic look at the word meaning in the original language it is written in clears it all up easily.
Now - PD might try to call this apologetics and therefore meaningless. Chx would do similarly sometimes Nothing ever reads the exact same in English when it starts in a different language.. I'm sure a French poetry teacher would agree right away with that. Anybody working with any other language would
Language and context were things she ignored when she was determined to lash out at Christians.
She really didn't have that great of knowledge.
Often when she was out of ammo she'd try to end with saying she didn't believe any of the Bible so the points against her nonsense didn't count Like a third grader at a board game mad about being behind
(Don't bother PD it's all true)
She just could cut and paste like nobody's business.
PD
2 lies about me so far
PD lies =/= change the truth
Anyway
If you'e ever on a big message board and somebody pastes pages of nonsense it is good study to look into the texts and see what's really up. -
PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 03:39 AM)
One of my favorites was when she went on one day about how the Bible was a lie because in John 14 it says that if we ask anything in Jesus' name that he will do it and this to her meant we had a magic ticket to get whatever we wanted as long as we "asked for it in JESUS NAME!" Since we couldn't pray up a million bucks the our God was a fraud
The passage in John 14 runs thus:
12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13
And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Form criticism adjoins this passage to John 16:23b, where the narrative continues with a re-affirmation:
"Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
24
Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
(As GoJ was redacted and re-edited into a form more in accordance with what then passed for Roman Catholic orthodoxy, it was cut to pieces and re-arranged in a different order, shattering the book's original internal pattern. What remains today has profound narrative discontinuity. See Thomas Cottam,
The Fourth Gospel Rearranged
(London: Epworth Press, 1952)).
But the Gospel does write checks that the believer cannot cash, rather like Luke 10:19, embellishing Mark 11:24, which frankly inform readers that a believer may ask anything and receive it without any qualification besides belief.
Empirically, any believer putting these promises to the test will quickly discover that it's simply not true. In swoop the apologists, with the special pleading that what one asks has to accord with God's will before he will grant it, and that anyone who points out that this isn't what the passages say simply doesn't understand God's word.
So when pointing out that the word in the Greek for "name" used is "onoma" and isn't quite what she was saying she got all upset because I was ignoring that it clearly said "name" Here's the deal the English word name is worth looking in to. (As a side note one of the most exciting things to do is to slow out Bible study down and look at the original meanings of these words Scripture tells us to study to show ourselves approved- workmen who need not be ashamed which s perfect because any shame she was looking for was quickly gone away here soon) So "onoma" - here- this is from Strongs: "ónoma name; (figuratively) the manifestation or revelation of someone's character, i.e. as distinguishing them from all others. Thus "praying in the name of Christ" means to pray as directed (authorized) by Him, bringing revelation that flows out of being in His presence. "Praying in Jesus' name" therefore is not a "religious formula" just to end prayers (or get what we want)!
Actually, that bit of apologetical exposition is not from the Strongs lexicon itself, which confines itself to strict definitions and meanings, but a resource added by Helps Word Studies, which adds the way in which the theologians would prefer the word be understood in light of the passages under consideration.
Ȥ -
Oglaigh_na_hEireann1981 — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 11:51 AM)
truly I tell you,
whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing
, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
No Christian has ever done "the works he has been doing", lets be honest. Christians don't 100% follow the teachings of Christ.
formerly known as Saoradh -
sailor-J — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 10:19 PM)
No Christian has ever done "the works he has been doing", lets be honest. Christians don't 100% follow the teachings of Christ.
All very true
If we could though we would have no need for a savior.
Thankfully though we know that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory we (anybody) get to be robed in the perfect righteousness of Christ
G-od's
R-iches
A-t
C-hrist's
E-xpense
Good reminder -
sailor-J — 9 years ago(February 15, 2017 11:19 PM)
From your own reference
Strong's #3686: onoma (pronounced on'-om-ah)
from a presumed derivative of the base of 1097 (compare 3685); a "name" (literally or figuratively) (authority, character):called, (+ sur-)name(-d).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
́
onoma- name: univ. of proper names
- the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one' s rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.
- persons reckoned up by name
- the cause or reason named: on this account, because he suffers as a Christian, for this reason
The name here refers to the authority and the character
The authority and the character of Christ is the an awesome place to look.
Praying in the name of Jesus is to pray with his authorization and character in mind So Jesus and prayer Well- when He taught his disciple to pray he said we should pray to the father (thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" so not OUR will be done God's will His authority and his character his name the name of Jesus Himself.
Excellent stuff and your references reinforce that Chx was incorrect as I had said.
If it prayed for and it is not a prayer for something in Jesus' nature then it isn't a prayer in his name as the two are the same thing
-
PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 12:36 AM)
Praying in the name of Jesus is to pray with his authorization and character in mind So Jesus and prayer Well- when He taught his disciple to pray he said we should pray to the father (thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" so not OUR will be done God's will His authority and his character his name the name of Jesus Himself.
There is not a single, solitary thing in the Strongs material that suggests that the promises of those verses were not intended to mean exactly what they say.
If those gospel authors thought anything of the sort, it could have been more clearly communicated by stating, "if you believe and ask, God will give it to you provided it's what
he
wants."
It's pretty funny watching Christian free will advocates reason in this way, that it never be "OUR will," but rather "God's will." "Free will," it would seem, isn't actually free.
§«
Ȥ -
sailor-J — 9 years ago(February 16, 2017 10:37 PM)
There is not a single, solitary thing in the Strongs material that suggests that the promises of those verses were not intended to mean exactly what they say.
True - not a single thing a couple of things do actually
Along with "onoma" having to do with the authority and character of the person there's this (it is kind of like you willfully ignore this stuff)
the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one' s rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.
So our prayers have to be in line with Jesus onoma a prayer that isn't in line with His interests or His pleasure or His deeds or His commands then it is an empty request with no worth to us or to the Kingdom. "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"
Which means exactly this:
If those gospel authors thought anything of the sort, it could have been more clearly communicated by stating, "if you believe and ask, God will give it to you provided it's what he wants."
What you wrote is exactly what the Gospel writers did say ans Strong's perfectly verifies this.
It's pretty funny watching Christian free will advocates reason in this way, that it never be "OUR will," but rather "God's will." "Free will," it would seem, isn't actually free.
Nonsense and you know it.
We have free will as to what we do pray for and most importantly we can choose whether or not we accept the finished work of Christ on the cross. I our own will we all sin. Believers and nonbelievers alike. I do it and that is my free will and then under my free will I get to ask the Lord to "forgive me my trespasses" which as Christ died in my place and the wages of sin is death then as a covered believer I am forgiven He chose to extend the grace and i chose to accept it. some choose otherwise
We are not wind up dolls we choose to love God or not.