If this doesn't convince you that hell is real, nothing will.
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phe_de — 9 years ago(January 17, 2017 11:12 PM)
I only watched the video long enough to read the name "Howard Storm".
He didn't die.
The subject line should probably be "Former atheist didn't die but believes he went to hell".Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
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The_Herald_Erjen — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 01:00 AM)
He said that he was before his experience, and I remember that he described himself as (like Nietzsche) hostile toward religion. PD may not like it, but that's what he said.
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PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 01:37 AM)
Christians lie. Constantly, compulsively.
Plus, whenever these so-called 'former atheists' describe atheism, it's quickly apparent they have no experience with it at all. If it were true that they used to be atheist, that wouldn't be the case.
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graham-167 — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 03:27 AM)
I've noticed this myself. You read any "I used to be an atheist" story, and the person described their atheism in terms that are just mind boggling.
The telling point for me is usually their point of conversion. Because it's rarely anything along the lines of "I carefully considered all the options, and here are the pros and cons of some of them, and why I came to feel that christianity was the true choice."
Rather, it's more like "I gradually got more miserable and angry and then realised I was just so mad at god because of that time when I was a kid and my folks made me go to church on sunday when I wanted to watch cartoons, but amazingly god forgave me and I'm saved! Hallelujah!"
Its pretty obvious that these people were always believers. They fell out with or drifted away from their church for a while, stopped thinking much about religion because they were too busy paying bills or whatever. And then had the Hallelujah moment and became good fundybots. But it's obvious from their conversion story that they don't really understand what it means to live a life free of religious belief.
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Vegas_Devil — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 04:50 AM)
"I used to be an atheist" story, and the person described their atheism in terms that are just mind boggling.
I think that applies to just about any "I used to be a" stories.
Most people frame their past life/beliefs into what they are now doing and either see or make up the reasons as to why they felt they have changed for the "better".
Hindsight maybe 20/20 but, sometimes, you are looking back through rose-tinted glasses.
That doesn't negate the fact that they could have been exactly what they claim they previously were/were doing.
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Its pretty obvious that these people were always believers
Altho.. This might be true.
"I just had a nightmare while my brain was being traumatized.. It must have been Hell!!"
That has to be based on some existing notion of what he would perceive a hell to be -
phe_de — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 12:31 PM)
Its pretty obvious that these people were always believers. They fell out with or drifted away from their church for a while, stopped thinking much about religion because they were too busy paying bills or whatever. And then had the Hallelujah moment and became good fundybots. But it's obvious from their conversion story that they don't really understand what it means to live a life free of religious belief.
On the other hand, if you have been indoctrinated into a religious belief from your childhood on, you may never know what it means to live free of religious belief. When your whole thinking has been shaped by indoctrination, it's difficult to deprogram yourself. In fact I don't believe it's possible to develop thinking that is 100% opposite of what you were taught as a child.
On the other hand, I don't buy into the "No true whatever" fallacy. An atheist is someone who does not believe that deities exist. How they come to that conclusion is a personal matter; and if Howard Storm at one point did not believe that deities exist, then he was an atheist. But if he was raised Christian, then it's understandable that he fell back into early childhood patterns when he thought he was on the verge of dying.
I notice that neither his webpage nor the Wikipedia article about him mention his childhood. Guess it would make his conversion less spectacular if it became known that he was raised Christian.Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
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PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(January 20, 2017 09:40 PM)
I notice that neither his webpage nor the Wikipedia article about him mention his childhood. Guess it would make his conversion less spectacular if it became known that he was raised Christian.
Ada likes to claim that she was raised in a religion-free environment, and that when she was sixteen or so, suddenly made the rational and considered decision to be a Christian, against the wishes of her 'atheist' parents.
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Vegas_Devil — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 04:43 AM)
Christians lie. Constantly, compulsively.
Sweet Baby Jesus dipped in Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ sauce!!
Generalize much?
So let's get this straight
He can't be an atheist.. because he lies?. And Christians do that.. Not atheists..
NO TRUE ATHEIST FALLACY!!!
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YouMightRabbitYouMight — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 07:02 AM)
Don't get your moobs all pointy, his crux was that these guys who claim they were atheists often weren't actually if you drill down on what they actually say. And religious apologists are notorious for it.
He can't be an atheist.. because he lies?. And Christians do that.. Not atheists..
Well, you claim to be an atheist yourself. -
senseibushido — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 10:38 AM)
You're right. He should have said: Christian apologists lie. Constantly, compulsively.
I don't think it's a good idea to claim that people like this were never really atheists (it's as dumb as members of one Christian sect claiming that other Christian sects aren't really Christians). But when someone is using stories like this as a tool to proselytize, I think that's even more suspect. The only thing worse is when a religious apologist claims to have converted/embarrassed an evil heathen atheist professor from a prestigious university who just happened to be sitting next to them on a plane/train. -
PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(January 20, 2017 09:47 PM)
That's a really unfair generalization to make.
No, it's really not. I could spend what's left of my life assembling and citing examples, and never run out of the supply.
Are there Christians who don't lie? Of course. The generalization speaks to the ones of whom it happens to be true, not of those of whom it is not.
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bubblegum_jenocide — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 10:36 AM)
The generalization speaks to the ones of whom it happens to be true, not of those of whom it is not.
So what you're saying now is that lying Christians lie?
I can't disagree with that, but that's not what you said initially.Pidder Padder? Make my Heart go Boom Bap and Then We'll Talk!
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PoisonedDragon — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 03:22 AM)
So what you're saying now is that lying Christians lie?
I can't disagree with that, but that's not what you said initially.
It's not just what I'm saying 'now,' but the meaning of what I said 'then.' I've been clarifying this particular issue for years now, against grievance seekers crying about what they consider unfair generalizations. The generalization is only true of those who actually do what's described, never of those who do not. Those who do not shouldn't need a gold star or special recognition singling them out.
A
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of Christians lie. Perhaps most.
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