The Moose
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kenneglds — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 04:35 AM)
mussina actually started 4 years after Glavine. they both retired in 2008.
That's not really the point. The point is that Glavine stuck around for a couple of years when he was clearly past his prime. But Mussina retired after having one of his best years, and based on that, there is a good chance he could have added a lot more wins if he had decided to continue pitching for a few years. -
haroldbaines — 9 years ago(December 19, 2016 11:46 AM)
Lou is my biggest WTF HOF vote.
One and done? That guy? What a joke. I thought when he retired he'd be in for sure. Not a first ballot but in. I've never been more shocked at a ballot total than I was when he didn't get past the first. -
kenneglds — 9 years ago(December 20, 2016 04:35 AM)
This guy was one of the best pitchers in his generation and in baseball history.
He was definitely one of the best pitchers in his generation. But to declare him one of the best pitchers of baseball history is kind of pushing it.
and the best player in the yankees
Again, kind of pushing it, considering that Mussina's Yankee teammates included such players as Derek Jeter/Arod/Mariano Rivera/Andy Pettite/Roger Clemons.
This is why sports and baseball suck
It seems a bit much to declare sports and baseball as suck-in because Mike Mussina isn't yet in the HOF.
Now he's not even go to get the hall of fame.
You mean ever?? I think there is a good chance he eventually gets in.
I have admit I never like the guy
You seem to be kind of a fan.
As for whether Mussina belongs in the HOF, he was one of the elite pitchers of his era for a long time, and he compiled a very impressive career record. So on that basis he would not shame the HOf with his presence. But he is not an absolute no-brainer. He should not have been elected on his 1st ballot. If it takes a few years for him to get in, it would be understandable. -
haroldbaines — 9 years ago(December 20, 2016 10:41 AM)
As for whether Mussina belongs in the HOF, he was one of the elite pitchers of his era for a long time, and he compiled a very impressive career record. So on that basis he would not shame the HOf with his presence. But he is not an absolute no-brainer. He should not have been elected on his 1st ballot. If it takes a few years for him to get in, it would be understandable.
If he does get in, it will be more of a Blyeleven type thing where it will be on his 10th and last year or something like that.
IF and I say IF they start letting in the juicers, which would be near the end of Moose's eligibility, he won't get in because there will be a lot of other guys getting in and we all know how they won't elect more than 3 guys on a ballot. -
Rey_Kahuka — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 06:43 AM)
My favorite Mussina moment was blowing a perfect game with two outs and two strikes in the 9th at Fenway to 'Jurassic Carl' Everett. This was pre-2004, so it was as good a highlight a Red Sox fan could hope for.
The future is in the hands of a man who has none.
(As in no future, as opposed to no hands.) -
klawrencio — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 07:29 AM)
I had him on my fantasy team that year and in that particular league, you got extra points (a ton of them) if your guy threw a perfect game, in addition to the awesome points you got for just that situation anyway. I've never hated Carl Everett as I did in that moment.
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haroldbaines — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 08:33 AM)
They're worth nothing. No cards from that time are worth anything. I just gave a friend of mine 2 90 Donruss Griffeys for his two boys. I gave hiim a pizzia rookie. They over produced the cards to the point where they're worthless.
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koskiewicz — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 09:40 AM)
you are correct. On the flip side, I own a near complete set of 1952 Topps BB cards including a near mint Mantle. I am missing 8 cards
Starting in the late 80's, the hobby went nutscollectors were charged a premium for a pack on the idea that they might get a highly rated prospect even though there was no guarantee that the player would blossom, or that you would even get one. It was at that point that I abandoned the hobby. They turned a kids hobby into an obscene business
I also have a Harold Baines rookie card:-) -
BlueMojo — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 10:52 AM)
I own a near complete set of 1952 Topps BB cards including a near mint Mantle. I am missing 8 cards.
That is awesome! The eight that you seek, are they common? Do you plan on completing the set? That's quite a set already. -
Kevbren849 — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 11:00 AM)
with all the (more deserving) starting pitchers who have been elected in the last few years, I believe that Mussina and Schilling will be getting a substantial boost in the voting. they are by far the most established starting pitchers left on the ballot, with the notable exception of Roger Clemens.
Mussina got 43% last year, on his 3rd try, up from 24.6% 2 years ago. I believe he will crack 50% this year, and slowly but surely make his way to 75% by around his 6th or 7th try (2019-2020).
if you need an additional reason to put him in, he won 7 Gold Gloves over the course of his career. I realize nobody puts much emphasis on a pitcher's defense, but that is still impressive. once the ball is in play, he still has a job to do, so why shouldn't it be considered?
Notable starting pitchers appearing on the ballot in the near future:
2017
Tim Wakefield - Red Sox Hall of Fame? maybe. Cooperstown? not a chance
2018
Johan Santana - absolutely dominant during his prime, but injuries took their toll. unfortunately, his overall career stats just aren't HoF worthy
Jamie Moyer - 269 wins, but a stats compiler. a career ERA of 4.25 is way too high for the Hall
2019
Roy Halladay - I think he gets in, but not 1st ballot
Andy Pettitte - I love the guy, but unlikely
2020
Cliff Lee - his period of dominance was too short for Cooperstown
2021
Tim Hudson & Mark Buerhle - both very good, but not Hall of Famers
since none of them are obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famers, I think it will the argument for guys like Mussina and Schilling more compelling. -
klawrencio — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 11:07 AM)
Roy Halladay - I think he gets in, but not 1st ballot
To me, Halladay is a quintessential borderline guy, but I don't think he gets in. Had some very nice years for sure, but just doesn't have that thing that puts him over the top. He's a lot like Saberhagen to me. Just one of the best guys to not make it in.
Johan Santana - absolutely dominant during his prime, but injuries took their toll. unfortunately, his overall career stats just aren't HoF worthy
Agreed, which is a real shame. Guy was so good but just doesn't have nearly the numbers or the longevity. -
Kevbren849 — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 11:43 AM)
To me, Halladay is a quintessential borderline guy, but I don't think he gets in. Had some very nice years for sure, but just doesn't have that thing that puts him over the top. He's a lot like Saberhagen to me. Just one of the best guys to not make it in.
it's definitely debatable. 203 wins is low for a Hall of Famer. but he did spend the majority of his career on a mediocre team in Toronto. as a Yankee fan, I remember watching games against him in the mid 2000s. you could almost guarantee a Yankee loss when he was on the mound. -
AnotherCleverName — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 11:50 AM)
I think Halliday gets in and it'll be proof that the BBWAA's criteria for pitchers has changed, they'll start to realize that things like 300 wins (of course this has never been a strict rule, but it sometimes close) is borderline impossible at this point, and they'll have to start relying on other things, like peak performances.
I think Pedro was already a bit of a test case for that, the difference of course being that Pedro's peak is probably the GOAT.
~I know that I know nothing.~ -
klawrencio — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 11:54 AM)
That's fair and I largely agree about the criteria, but I don't even mean Halladay's wins. His numbers are very good, there's no doubt, and he has an impressive peak set of years, but overall I just don't see his body of work or peak performance being HOF worthy. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets in, but I don't think anyone should have a gripe if he finds himself on the outside looking in.
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AnotherCleverName — 9 years ago(December 22, 2016 12:06 PM)
I didn't mean to imply you did, I was just saying that I think Halladay might be the first of the pitchers we see that proves the tide is turning on how pitchers are judged. Their careers just aren't lasting long enough nowadays, and they're not pitching as much in general, so using raw numbers isn't going to work like it used to.
And I'm not really sure why I'm telling you this, since these are all things you fully understand, I'm just making my opinion known!
But since I'm already rambling, which active pitchers do you think are HoF bound? Because we know, more likely than not, none of them are going to make it close to the raw numbers typically associated with HoFers.
Kershaw probably, Koufaxian peak is probably enough if he can keep it up a few more years and not fall off a cliff.
A couple years ago I'd have said Felix Hernandez was well on his way, but he seems to be in steep decline, he might pull out of it though.
Verlander? If he maintains a few more years like last year, maybe.
Bumgarner's postseason narrative might be enough, but it hasn't helped Schilling.
Greinke probably not consistent enough.
Scherzer and Lester would need to finish out strong.
Price, probably not.
~I know that I know nothing.~