Karen Was The Real Enemy
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ozzieink — 15 years ago(July 05, 2010 09:27 AM)
Actually she did. And Karen knew exactly when it began: the night Eve's friend calls the husband late at night and he leaves his bed to go to another woman. At one point he thinks of marrying Eve and divorcing Karen, who waits out the affair.
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Moon_and_New_York_City — 15 years ago(July 22, 2010 06:25 PM)
Man, all this Karen hating is coming out of left field!
The practical joke on Margo was totally justified - she was just missing a performance, not a kidney for crying out loud!
And unlike Birdy - Karen did not figure out Eve until it was way too late, at their final confrontation in the ladies room (Bill quips, "I understand she might be the understudy in there too").
Karen did NOT tell Lloyd to give Eve the part of Cora either. I wonder sometimes if people even watch the movie before they criticize it! Margo had already decided NOT to do the play; Karen didn't have to tell Lloyd!
I think in the end - Karen was a very good friend. You can tell she was genuinely upset by the turn of events.
The irony is that Bette Davis and Celeste Holm were NOT friends at all. Apparently the first day on the set, Celeste said "Good Morning!" and Bette Davis cracked, "Oh, sh&t she's got manners!" and they never spoke again, except while in character.
"the best that you can do is fall in love" -
ladylaughinglizard — 12 years ago(January 05, 2014 09:41 AM)
Do you have a special DVD with deleted scenes or something?
At one point did he think of marrying Eve and divorcing Karen? I hope you didn't gather that by what Eve said, Eve was lying the whole movie. -
morgana-31 — 16 years ago(February 02, 2010 02:13 AM)
Karen bringing Eve to Margo in the first place was understandable. She thought she was helping a star struck young girl meet her idol.
But I can't understand why she arranged for Eve to miss her performance. Even if she was trying to cut Eve a break, surely you don't do stuff like that to your supposed best friend?
Love is never having to say you're sober. -
sstrnod — 16 years ago(February 03, 2010 01:24 PM)
Karen arranged for Margo to miss the performance as an intention to help Margo (perhaps somewhat vindictively) not Eve by taking the petulant Margo down a peg and off her high horse with a figurative swift kick in the rear.
What prompts the idea is the scene where Lloyd comes home while Karen is painting the fruit basket and is falling all over himself with praise for Eve's reading (remember Karen says "Don't run out of adjectives dear"). After Lloyd puts down "Miss Channing" and Karen attempts to defend her, Lloyd responds "Margo? Margo's great. She knows it. That's the trouble. She can play Peck's Bad Boy all she wants, and who's to stop her? Who's to giver her that boot in the rear she needs and deserves?"
Soon after, Karen as narrator says "My big idea came to me just sitting on a couch: that boot in the rear to Margo. Heaven knows, she had one coming. From me, from Lloyd, from Eve, Bill, Max, and so on. We'd all felt those size 5's of hers often enough. But how?" She has it, then decides to let it go. "Screaming and calling names is one thing, but this could mean " I think she momentarily realizes this could possibly lead to Eve's ascension at the expense of Margo.
However, the classic rationalizations then begin: "Why not? It would all seem perfectly legitimate. And there were only two people in the world who would ever know. Also, the boot would land where it would do the most good for all concerned. And after all, it was no more than a perfectly harmless joke which Margo herself would be the first to enjoy, and no reason why she shouldn't be told about it in time." Finally, she places a phone call to Eve.
Of course, the great irony is despite things appearing to unravel for Margo as a result of these "good intentions", it actually DOES directly lead to and end up benefiting her, for she does show some humility with Karen while sitting in the empty car and attains the one thing she's desired and is missing but but hasn't yet got: marriage to Bill. -
Smush Master — 15 years ago(May 17, 2010 12:48 PM)
Not only did she plan to make Margo miss her performance, but instead of telling her truth when the conniving Eve threatened to rat her out, she gives in to her demands and tells Lloyd to give her Margo's part.
She went from being Margo's friend, to being Eve's b*tch.
I agree with the poster about Birdy. She had her figured out from the get go.
Karen is a nobody who married into the theater, because she wasn't good enough to make it on her own. -
somerelief2-859-146886 — 15 years ago(October 11, 2010 10:17 PM)
Sorry, but you are misunderstanding Karen's motives and the turn of events.
Others here have quite effectively explained Karen's motivation. Have you forgotten how rotten Margo had been treating everyone? She was no saint. She deserved to be taught a lesson, but teaching people lessons usually backfires one way or another. As far as Karen knew, Eve was merely a nice,very talented girl who was being verbally abused by her idol, Margo. And she thought that she would kill two birds with one stone by letting Eve get the opportunity to do one performance. In fact, Karen and Margo - like all of us, make mistakes for which they both felt remorse.
And no, Karen did not intercede with Lloyd to give the part to Eve; because at the table Margo announces that she does not want the part. That's why Karen is laughing: it's from sheer relief that now she doesn't have to give in to Eve's blackmail.
About Karen being a "nobody" - she gracefully states that she's the "lowest form of celebrity." But I like to think that she married Lloyd because she loved him and vice versa. Not everybody is interested in "making it big" in the theatre. -
learyblaine — 15 years ago(March 02, 2011 07:25 PM)
I thought Karen was laughing (after Margo announced she didn't want the part of Cara) because yet again! she had been marginalized. Once again the "real" movers and shakers had made their moves, leaving no part or role for her. She had not thought it possible, but she had just become an EVEN LOWER form of celebrity: one who caves-in to a blackmail, knowing in her heart what she did, then STILL doesn't make an impact. Pathetic.
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romarub — 15 years ago(September 10, 2010 11:14 PM)
It's always bothered me that Lloyd didn't further question how, or why, his car was out of gas - especially considering that he'd only filled the tank the day before. I realize this is only incidental to the plot, but I know that something like that would bother me until I got a definitive explanation.
Also, I don't know what kind of mileage cars got in 1950, but they were only 5 miles away from their destination, so Karen cut it very close when she drained the tank. -
EmpressClaudia — 15 years ago(March 21, 2011 11:04 PM)
Agreed. Seems to me that Karen was always jealous of Margo. And yes in the beginning she was just a pawn but come on that whole fiasco was Karen's fault and Karen never owned up to it just became a better friend because of her guilt.
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antonio8885 — 12 years ago(October 25, 2013 01:45 PM)
Oddly enough, Bette Davis got along with Anne Baxter in real life (they remained friends until Davis's death despite their initial competition for the Lead Actress Oscar that year!) but Bette couldn't stand Celeste Holm and felt as though Karen's laughing fit at the restaurant was purposely improvised by Holm to upstage Davis's morose Margo character in the scene! She was such a jealous control freak!
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elena-28 — 12 years ago(October 28, 2013 08:29 AM)
There's a lovely chain reaction here: though it's true that Margo has often abused her friends, and has a come-uppance coming, so to speak, in this particular case, her extreme behavior is motivated by her realization of what kind of person Eve is, and her inability to communicate this constructively to the people around her. Watch that magnificent build-up scene with her and Bill (and the chocolate temptation!), through to the Liebestodt (sp?) scene, and buttressed by her confession of fear of age to Lloyd, and culminating in that monologue about being tucked into bed ("Eve would, wouldn't you, Eve?" "If you'd like." "I wouldn't like."). Eve, in the end, is at the bottom of her behavior that night, but of course, no one knows (not even, I believe, Eve, interestingly, though she probably catches on right quick - which may be why she asks Karen if there's a way to move on from working for Margo).
Wonderful chain of behavior from writer Mank!