The MAJOR FLAW in Triangle
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Erniesam — 10 years ago(May 29, 2015 11:46 PM)
I've read your timeline of events just now and it made me see certain things more clearly. Yes I was wrong about the creation of mean Jess. I figured she was just an anomaly in the process, but you've made me see it differently. There are INDEED only two Jesses: good Jess and mean Jess and they venture on two different paths. The other Jesses are stages in their development.
I still have to disagree with you on other certain points. You say that mean Jess kills the other mean Jess and good Jess the other good Jess. I don't see it that way. Do you consider the Jess we are following from the beginning mean? Yes, she becomes something like mean Jess, but she hasn't a bullet wound to the head. Furthermore: she is the one who kills mean Jess.
It seems to me that for the loop to continue it can only be that good Jess kills mean Jess in that this is what's neccesary for the continuation we see at the house: good Jess killing mean Jess.
In light of this I guess there are TWO different loop cycles which overlap each other by missing only ONE loop: the development of good Jess and the development of mean Jess. -
warrior-poet — 10 years ago(May 30, 2015 11:13 PM)
That's correct, there's two basic alternating patterns. However, logically those patterns could evolve into something slightly different over time. They can't deviate too much, however, because the last pattern merges back into the first one continuously. You're mistaken that nice Jess kills "mean" Jess. What we commonly label the "mean" Jess is the one who gets shot in the head. Our Jess doesn't confront that one. She kills another nice one. You may want to watch that again (it's definitely a lot to absorb and only after careful study did I pin it down), although again my matrix is an exact replica of the events in the film and how the events of each loop correlate, and you can see that nice-defeats-nice and mean-defeats-mean. The only so-called "mean" Jess we see get thrown overboard is when "our" Jess (the one we follow) looks down at the main deck from where the dead Sally corpses are and watches one mean one beat the other with a boat hook (possibly killing her) before lifting her over the railing. In the nice Jess fight (which we watch twice, each time with "our" Jess on the other end of things), one swings with an ax at the other and the other nice Jess tumbles backwards, never getting hit. Hopefully that helps clarify things. It's rather complex.
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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Erniesam — 10 years ago(May 31, 2015 05:04 AM)
I've watched the movie yesterday again and it's amazing what wonders a second viewing can do. You're absolutely right: the pattern is indeed uneven number throws uneven number overboard and the evn numbers the even numbers. That way you get indeed that the nice and mean Jess take turns in getting thrown overboard. Weird how I got the impression that the nice Jess (the one we are following) is thrown overboard immediately after she throws the other one overboard. I was under the impression after first time watching it that she throws MEAN Jess overboard an wellyou can see how one can screw things up when thinking that.
I do see that you have studied it carefully indeed and that I was too pigheaded to take that at face value. I guess I'd like to find things out for myself and learn it the hard way. So I guess this means that we have indeed two cycles of Jess: the cycle of nice and the cycle of mean Jess. This means that after we have seen nice Jess murdering mean Jess at her house that the next time mean Jess will kill nice Jess at the house don't you think?
Last night I noticed another thing that I got wrong: when Jess walks up to the harbor and meets Victor at the end she states that she doesn't know him. This indicates that the process of erasing the memory has already begun and that the dream only constitutes the conclusion of the memory loss. -
warrior-poet — 10 years ago(June 01, 2015 03:37 PM)
This movie definitely requires some study to get the details ironed out. Chris Smith spent a long time working on those details to get them like he wanted them. This movie almost needs a 101 course!
For the bit about two patterns, bingo. Jess adopts the "nice" then "mean' personality each time she loops around. However, Jess 0, or Jess Prime, i.e. the Jess at the house that she bashes in the head, is only on the periphery of the loop. This is Jess in her original starting state, before the loops began (until she gets her head caved in, that is). She's neither "mean" nor "nice" because she gets prevented from ever going to the harbor. So the result is that the same Jess cycles around again and again and again, swapping between "nice" and "mean" each time. She only drives to the harbor and boards the Aeolus one time. She then loops around 80-something (or many more) times, killing her original self each time. Eventually, she must not kill her original self and let that past version drive to the harbor (or she has the crash and decides not to go with the Ferryman), which is how the end loop feeds back into the starting loop. Thinking about it is enough to make brain cells leak from your ears!
There's a lot of debate over exactly what Jess remembers, when she forgets what, and how much she remembers each time she experiences deja vu. For her comment to Victor, there's speculation that she's playing along at that point and in fact remembers him but lies about it, which results in a cleaner demarcation point for her amnesia (the dream on the boat). However, Smith didn't want to present things that cleanly. He wanted it to be ambiguous and for the audience to question certain things and form their own conclusions, which means there isn't a surefire answer regarding her amnesia and what she remembers exactly, which has sparked a massive amount of debate over the years. I can see it both ways. But it's simpler to conclude that she only loses her memory on the yacht, and that her behavior on the dock is her playing along knowing full well what's about to happen. Of course, she then forgets all of that, with her first deja vu moment being the dream she wakes up from.
This aspect of the film, like much of it, is open to interpretation, however.
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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m-vaskes — 10 years ago(July 23, 2015 03:31 PM)
There are some quotes from the film's writer and director, Christopher Smith, in the FAQ. If you read them, you'll see he has absolutely no idea what's he's talking about in terms of continuity. I'd say that is the major flaw.
http://straycatgraphics.com/ -
peter_rmp — 10 years ago(December 27, 2015 06:43 AM)
I see two small flaws in the movie. The ship that passes by already has the gangway ladder lowered for them to step on, which is strange as a moving ship would not have a gangway lowered on the move. Also when Jessie looks over the side of the ship and see's the upturned yacht with them all standing waving their arms for help, the yacht is at least 50 yards away from the ship and they would not be close enough to just step on the ship's gangway as they did.
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newbiesan — 9 years ago(June 16, 2016 01:11 PM)
You my friend have just noticed the hardest thign to realise about a timeloop. There is a beginning, but the looping itself re-writes the start, so it looks like there is no start.
Maybe I can paint it liek this:
imagine:
-The first loop: they arive on the ship. They find nobody there,they flip out and somehow they die except jess (How? don't know: accidents, she went mad etc. this does not matter). But because they all die, now we get:
-The second loop: She sees them arrive just like we saw in the movie. She sees everthign happen again liek it so we get:
-The third loop: She has completely lost here mind now and tries to kill her own copy. But her copy fight back just liek we see at the start of the film.
This marks the set of the next loop, just as we see in the movie now there are other her's on board because of the first 3 loops and the first loop is re-writen.