THE ENDING - MAJOR SPOILERS
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nubka — 19 years ago(July 05, 2006 01:48 PM)
I'm with Jill St. John on this one. I've always felt that she threw him the key because she didn't want to be alone. She probably had misgivings and knew in the back of her mind that this new "affair" would bring her nothing but trouble and drag her even further down, but by that point, I don't think she really cared (her former life, as she knew it, was over, she felt that she was truly over the hill, and then Paulo dumps her for a younger woman)
In her mind, it was better to have at least a bum around to make her feel that she was still desireable to someone (I would also be willing to bet that she would clean him up proper and buy him some presentable clothes!) -
DavidParis — 19 years ago(August 09, 2006 11:29 PM)
Absolutely. It never entered my mind that after she let the derelict in he was going to kill her. Her intense feeling of loneliness drove her to sacrifice any last vestige of morality and common sense that remained after Beatty left her. Her lonelieness and desperation overcame the fear she had of becoming one of those "older women" she depised.
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ld-21 — 19 years ago(February 05, 2007 10:43 AM)
I certainly respect the [relative] optimism of the "next lover" theory, but I feel it's certainly Williams' (and the filmmakers) intention that The Young Man is, basically, the Angel of Death. His presence is too ominous, too constant to be otherwise.
Note that in the film, he puts Karen's keys in his pocket, rather than on the hall table. This is a very powerful final gesture. Then he approaches the camera (the P.O.V. at this point is roughly Karen's remember) and the scene fades to black. The intention here is pretty clear. Through the whole film, there has been no squeamish avoidance of sexual innuendo. It's doubtful the director would use this technique to avoid showing a sexual embrace. -
babs1068 — 19 years ago(March 13, 2007 08:53 PM)
I just re-watched this on a VHS tape and I have to be with the last writer here. For one thing, it's very typical Williams, and they have the "Floras por las muertas" kind of thing that happens in Streetcar with the women in the alley. And Suddenly too.
Also, earlier on during their relationship, Karen and Paolo are talking about how dangerous this is all. And he says something to the effect that most of the women her age are found killed with no sign of forced entry, as they've been killed by their lovers. She replies that she's not at that stage yet, and maybe in ten years she will be. After Paolo leaves her for St. John, it seems that she's in major depression mood and figures she has nothing left.
It is open for interpretation, but the filmmakers hedge it pretty much on the suicidal angle.
I watched it about ten years ago; I taped it off of A.and E. I remember thinking it very strange at the time and it's as odd as I remember. Sort of B-list Williams. And I think Viv should be able to do better and Warren's histrionics and over-acting drives me crazy. And that accent. Oy. -
Mr-Dedlock — 18 years ago(April 16, 2007 11:08 AM)
She was murdered, the guy was crazed out of his mind and Mrs Stone threw him the keys and she sat waiting and smoking the cigarette as if it were he last one so I would definitely believe he murdered her.
Vivien Leigh films never had happy endings anyways, she always ended up dead or alone. -
classics_guy — 18 years ago(April 26, 2007 08:01 PM)
I saw this movie many years ago in my teens, during the 80's
even then, I thought it pretty clear she instended (or hoped) that the guy kill her, she was in despair and alone again and knowing she was past her 'prime' as an actress and woman. she had a look of resignation on her face
smoking that cigarette, waiting. and that guy was definately NOT out for sex
or a lover! he looked scary and despereate.
knowing she was alone, with no doubt expensive jewlery and such.
at the young age of 15 when I saw this, I sensed 'doom' as he walked into her apt. Williams wouldn't have it any other way would he? -
olebuttermilksky5-1 — 18 years ago(May 02, 2007 08:43 PM)
i thought the guy was more symbolic than just her death or merely the next lover. i thought he was supposed to be a hint to her subconscious that she would ultimately be stripped of all her morals. it's as if when he is first brought to the audiences attention, she has no reason to be worried about him and his odd presence because he is not yet a threat. but as the film continues and Mrs. Stone's "morals" and motives become more shady, like her dealings with Paolo and his lady pimp, its like the presence of the young man starts to have more importance, and immorality is now a great threat to mrs. stone.
her dealings with paolo are such that she need not worry about morals. she blindly believes that he wants her for herself, for she challenges Paolo, and therefore believes that he loves her. to her conscious mind she is not yet immoral, but in love with a younger man. that is why the stalker now worries herbecause subconsciously she knew all along what paolo was. and when she loses paolo and realizes that he had not loved he, its as if she gives up all hope and lets the boywhom she has been avoiding and running away from (both in her mind and physically)come up to her room.
i believe they become lovers, but more importantly she gives in to what he stands for. -
artistathome — 13 years ago(November 06, 2012 07:29 PM)
If he was a stalker who wanted to kill her he wouldn't have waited that long. Months? He'd have cornered her someplace, which he did at one point, and kill her then.
He wanted to be invited into her life so that she would pay him, clothe him and introduce him to a better life for awhile. To think that he hung around to committ murder is ludicrous.
However, from HER point of view, yes, she wanted something bad to happen. Paolo had told her she might end up with her throat slashed and that is what she hoped too.
But it wouldn't have happened that night unless she insisted on it. But how in the world would the beggar then get what he wanted? Steal her jewels?>
I think the ending was absurd even for TW. I didn't enjoy the movie frankly. and what was up with her pot belly>>>????
"I'm rich and I'm Scottish. Doesn't get better than that!"
Craig Ferguson in "I'll Be There" -
HarlowMGM — 13 years ago(November 07, 2012 03:22 AM)
Notice though after Karen has thrown him the keys. He picks them up but looks around to make sure no one will see him entering the building just like a criminal would! Why would do that that if he did not have a sinister motive? He would have picked them up instantly and hustled right up if he thought here was his chance to be a gigolo. And his smile - if he thought this was his ticket to the gravy train he would have been smirking and strutted in like Paolo. But he walks in tensely and his smile is very sinister and evil. And note his hands are pretty much kept in his pockets suggesting he may be preparing to draw a weapon.
He waited that long because despite his trailing her he never had a chance to be alone with her before where no one would see him if he were to attack her. There's also the possibility he intends to rape her first so he's not going to attack her where he can't do that as well. (And while some posters have suggested this guy was "the Angel of Death", he's obviously a real person given Paolo has seen him and commented on him aways being on the street.)
Mind you I would love for the ending to be Karen just picked up another gigolo but given the bleak endings to most Tennessee Williams works I think he clearly meant this was the end of the line for Karen Stone. I think he deliberately left the ending vague because I'm sure a frank ending would have been even more disturbing in that era. -
TANSD76 — 13 years ago(February 03, 2013 06:40 PM)
I think he waited that long because he was more of a symbol than a real person. Especially with plays, I find myself having to suspend my disbelief at recurring themes and symbols and phrases. To me, he's like any play where people keep mentioning a certain flower or where characters echo phrases though they've never heard other characters say them. He's meant to hang around and be ominous until it's time for him to play his role.
I actually hoped that he would have a greater purpose and that there would be some secret to his character. I hoped he had something to tell her or that he would be revealed as someone from her past. But no, I think he was just a symbol and it's highly doubtful that he would be her next lover. -
HoferPM-1 — 14 years ago(December 09, 2011 02:32 PM)
Just watched it again for the upteenth time. I felt bad for her, but she should not have invited that guy up. The minute I saw him I became afraid and Paolo said something about a woman being murdered after she took up with some street urchin. Paolo was a male whore and she should have realized it would never last.
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info-3508 — 16 years ago(February 24, 2010 08:40 PM)
I think that your analysis is very astute. Watching it again, I believe that the act of the vagabond putting Mrs. Stone's keys in his own pocket is significant. We are meant to see this, it implies to me that his intentions are not good. A "friendly presence" would have smiled, returned the keys to her, or at least placed them on the table. He is desperate, there for taking. She is vain, so in despair over her youth and beauty fading, so willing to sacrifice her morals for the illusion of desirability, she doesn't care anymore.
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maryannhwrd — 14 years ago(January 31, 2012 01:42 PM)
I noticed that he pocketed her keys, but didn't realize the action's significance. You're so right. Until now I thought the movie's ending was a lot more hopeful than the book's.
In the novella, Tennessee Williams shows this young man as much more sinister. He can be heard tapping something metallic sounding as he stalks Mrs. Stone. Also, he waits until he's sure she's watching before relieving himself against the stone wall. -
mark.waltz — 13 years ago(July 27, 2012 09:53 AM)
Tennessee Williams used "the angel of death" character in his play "The Milk Train Doesn't Stop Here Anymore" which premiered in New York just a year or two after this. This does create a pattern, although you can also see sort of a reverse "Pygmallion"/"My Fair Lady" story where she helps him turn his life around. I don't recall if this scene was in the original, but having just seen the remake, I felt that the part where the young man grabs the pizza dropped by an American woman and devours it to indicate that he was mortal. Even if the man is unbalanced, I don't think he'd stoop to killing her when at least he'd have a roof over his head for a while. If he did eventually kill her, it would have to be in a moment of passion, not right after he entered the apartment for the first time.
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TANSD76 — 13 years ago(February 03, 2013 06:34 PM)
I agree. He seems like the kind of character you'd find in a play, more symbol than person. And the foreshadowing of the earlier discussion of the woman killed by a stranger seems to make it pretty clear that even if he didn't kill Karen, she certainly wanted him to.
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tgemberl — 17 years ago(January 17, 2009 12:16 PM)
ID-21 wrote:
Through the whole film, there has been no squeamish avoidance of sexual innuendo.
But it seems like that's kind of beside the point. This is not a "sexploitation" flick, so it only shows two people coming together when there is some level of emotional intimacy between them. The young man from the street is a complete stranger, so Williams wouldn't show intimacy between them. Of course he is a harbinger of doom for Mrs. Stone, as everybody on this thread has said, but we can't necessarily draw the conclusion that he killed her on this occasion. It just shows how desperate she is at this point, and of course this doesn't bode well for her future. She may be found dead someday, but not necessarily now.
"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."