In order from best to least-best:
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amyghost — 11 years ago(April 15, 2014 03:57 AM)
He might have been. I don't know if he still had any creative input on the show by then, but if not, it still would have been a good idea if the then-current team had followed his example and ended the show while it was still good, and before it had so obviously run out of gas.
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TMC-4 — 11 years ago(July 17, 2014 12:47 AM)
Here's a fairly good idea regarding how whack
Night Court
got post-Reinhold Weege:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070103205327/http://www.jumptheshark.com /n/nightcourt.htm
From 1984 to 1989, this show was an absolute riot, especially the episodes with Florence Halop as the elderly bailiff. However,
once Reinhold Weege stepped down as executive producer, the show became too contrived for me.
Simplest one. Reinhold Weege leaves as Executive Producer. There was a certain wackiness to the show that was blatantly obvious.
Once Weege left, that edge was taken away, and that's when many of the events that are currently on the list, occurred.
The "kindlier, gentler Dan", the elevation of Phil to almost a main character, Bull's fiance, the introduction of the court stenographer, Gilber Godfried all of these were occurrences
AFTER Weege left, and they were just not funny.
Anyone who says Night Court went downhill after Selma Diamond passed away is nuts, because most of the truly great shows occurred when Dan became the full letch, and Mac was brought in. That didn't happen until Season 2, and Selma died during the summer break between 1 and 2. And I also think that Markie Post was a heck of a better character than Ellen Foley ever was, because she was the best antithesis to Dan. You had the Angel in Christine on one side, defending all the scum, and you had the Devil in Dan on the other, trying to send the people up the river. It was that dichotomy between good and evil that made their interaction with Harry so much fun. Harry was the Everyman, with the Devil on one shoulder and the Angel on the other, as played by John and Markie. The show was on it's stride when it was Harry, Dan, Christine, Mac, Roz, and Bull (basically Seasons 3 through 6),
and finally jumped the shark when Weege left.
When creator Reinhold Weege left the show after the sixth season, "Night Court" definitely jumped. The seventh season tried to carry on Weege's trademark combination of wackiness and sentiment, but the writing quality just wasn't there; the actors acted like zombie versions of their old selves, and desperate new twists were added like Christine getting married and pregnant. The two subsequent seasons tried to make the show more "verbal" and "witty," which basically meant making everybody boring, even the once-manic Harry.
It's too bad, because under Weege's regime this was a wonderful show; despite all the cast changes, despite the early loss of the wonderful Selma Diamond, it was always incredibly funny and fast-paced, the underrated crown jewel of NBC's first and best "must-see" Thursday lineup. Incidentally, I don't really understand the previous poster's beef against shows where you actually CARE about the characters. "Seinfeld" was great but its heartlessness is not something I'd want to see repeated.
When Reinhold Weege left as exec producer, the goofiness left too, and the show simply stopped being funny
. Dan got soft, the storylines got schmaltzy, stupid extra characters (the stenographer, Gilbert Gottfried, et al.) came in, the show tipped from anarchic to heartwarming, and I hate heartwarming.
I agreethis show jumped at the beginning of the 1990-91 season ,
when Chris Cluess and Stuart Kriesmann became exec producers.
The season before, with Christine pregnant et al, at least had the zany elements of what made the show great, even though you could tell the actors were getting tired and they had a minimum of 3 subplots running in each ep. But when Cluess and Kriesman added that reporter girlfriend for Judge Stone and the Stenographer and newsstand guy (did either one ever get more than one line per ep)Chirstine's divorceTHAN the whole Phil death thing.yikes. Pretty embarrassing to watch.
This is a show that practically defines its own moment when it JTS'd. It was created and produced by Reinhold Weege (writer for the great Barney Miller). At the end of the Weege-produced episodes of Night Court, you can hear his deep laugh on the closing production credit. Weege quit the show a couple of years before it ended, and his laughing production credit was deleted. When the show began, it was a nice vehicle for the mildly eccentric comedian Harry Anderson.
After Weege left, it went all over the place.
There was one episode where Judge Harry imposed a sentence on an animated Wile E. Coyote. Give me a break! And Markie Post's virginal character becomes an unwed mom for no reason, finally falls in love with Harry (long after anyone cared), left him, and then made John Larroquette's character go crawling for her in the final episode. Man, what a mess!
I agree that the show jumped around 1990. As a loyal fan at the time, I remember my anticipation of the "Potty-Man" episode that lampooned Andrew "Dice" Clay, and my subsequent disappointment with how weak the show turned out to be. In the show, the Potty-Man character ends up in court for some reason, and Dan is, of course, a big fan. In the end however, everyone gangs up on the Pott -
TMC-4 — 11 years ago(June 19, 2014 01:58 AM)
Based from what I've been reading recently, many people believe that either Christine getting pregnant or trying to give Dan a conscious (i.e. no longer having him be the lecherous, sleazy pervert that we had all grown to love) were the closest that
NC
came to jumping the shark. -
Violin-Violence — 11 years ago(July 03, 2014 06:11 PM)
I agree. I am in the beginning of season 8 (ep. 5) Christine just had her baby, and for me, babies tend to change things in directions I just dont care for. So far I havent seen too many changes in Christine or her storylines, which makes me happy, but we'll see what is to come. I wish that she had a bit more fire, like she had before, to balance her prudishness.
Now Dan is a different story
Dan began, imo, much like a young Frasier with a drier sense of humor and lecherous ardor. Then in seasons 2-3 he begins his evolution into the devilish scoundrel with a heart thats worth the effort to capture. LOVE this Dan! John plays him so well and really makes me believe his character. So Im watching the seasons, enjoying Dan's soulful devil and then I notice a slight change. He starts to allude more than declare. He isnt as out right sexual or ethically devoid. He slowly is becoming a watered down version of himself. Dan was the balls of the show. Now I find myself longing for the real Dan, undiluted and pure.
I personally find that Dan's character starts its dilution (btw I dont think dilution is entirely about giving him a conscious. There are a lot of episodes prior to his change where he has a heart/vulnerabilities. If he didn't I wouldn't be so attracted to his character.) around the time that his dominatrix (Sheila) practically rapes him while in the hospital. I quite enjoy these episodes and have no problem with his character, what I do have a problem with though is Sheila's exit. She does appear in another episode a short time after the hospital episode, but basically she's gone. Love her, hate her or somewhere in between, their relationship took balls to depict. S/M may come up every once and again in a handcuff joke or even just using the word 'dominatrix', but Dan had a full on S/M relationship, begging like a dog included. Not to mention, he was the submissive, thats already ballsy territory. Anyway, to me, the inclusion and detail of that relationship showed me where the show's heads at willing to commit to the character and go beyond the surface of what some may only dabble at. In ending that arc, we see a slow decline in all things Dan. To me they took one of his two balls away and the show followed suit. I still felt like Dan was mostly Dan all the way up to the end of the 5th and beginning of the 6th seasons (Danny got his Gun 1/2/3) but after that, the change is clear.
Changes in other characters follow as well the edges that appeal to this devilish curmudgeonly pervert were just softened a bit too much for my taste. The uniqueness of the show stalls a bit, and to me, a good portion of that uniqueness was edge and depth of character/storylines.
With all that being said I still quite enjoy the show.
I wish I could watch The John Larroquette Show. I used to watch it as a kid, like Night Court, but I barely remember a thing. Besides loving John. -
deem_bastille — 10 years ago(February 13, 2016 06:45 AM)
I think it is fine. throughout the seasons the show went through changes some good and needed, some needed but not good. Christine marrying/getting together with that guido cop is one of the not good ones. yeah, markie was pregnant but really, him????
Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.
Edmund Blackadder. -
Besmircher — 11 years ago(July 16, 2014 11:37 AM)
For the past few weeks I've been catching up on NC via Encore Classic also. However, while I have yet to come across the episode(s) where they jumped the shark, it did start to go a bit downhill. While a show's decline is a result of jumping-the-shark, normally there's an outrageous, gimmicky episode or arc that begins this decent. I haven't really found that particular point of ridiculousness yet, but yeah it began slipping around 89 or 90. Stunt-casting Mel Torme didn't help either.
Regarding Christine's pregnancy, fact is Markie Post was pregnant in real life at that time and they decided to work it into the show. So it's not like they just made it up. They did quite well with it IMO; the lamaze class with her, Dan, Harry and Bull was a very funny example that you'd expect from classic NC. Because her pregnancy was real I have a difficult time declaring that as the shark-jumping moment. But specifically her relationship with Tony just didn't work. Zero chemistry. If they would have written, say, her one-night-stand with that street artist she defended a year prior or so to when they did, they could have written her resulting pregnancy around that. -
TMC-4 — 11 years ago(July 17, 2014 12:54 AM)
http://catholicskywalker.blogspot.com/2014/05/sunday-best-tv-sitcoms-o f-all-time-25.html
JUMPING THE SHARK
The show took its downturn in quality with "Wedding Blues" (7x15-16).
Most sitcoms from the 80's kept their main romantic leads apart because bringing them together let a lot of the excitement die (see Moonlighting). The same was true of Night Court. In this episode, Christine impulsively married a man and became pregnant with his baby.
What changed about the show was that they could never capture the romantic spark between Harry and Christine again. Both characters would have relationships with other people, but it always rang hollow and felt like pointless filler. But even after this, it took all the wind out of the sails of this relationship.
Of course the series was not focused only on them. The other characters had wonderfully fun story arcs. And by the middle of the series, Night Court found a fantastic balance between the silly and the sappy. But from this episode on, the humor continued to broaden and make further and further breaks from reality. The story lines became more nonsensical.
This can especially be seen in the final season, which was tacked on at the last second instead of cancellation. What had been zany wit devolved into bland mugging for the camera.
http://www.manic-expression.com/apps/blog/show/36383652
Night Court-Season 7 & 8!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, I have been waiting to go on this rant for a long time. Night Court was a fun little slapstick show. I fell in love with the re-runs and became a real fan.
But somewhere around the 6th or 7th season, the show started to lose focus. Suddenly the show became more about the people and less about the courtroom. For some reason, the show got serious.
Harry fell in love with a woman who causes him to stop being silly and fun. He becomes boring and she ends up breaking his heart when she leaves him to enter the witness protection program. Later he gets stuck teaching a night class which was boring and made no sense. Christine gets pregnant after a one night stand with a guy she barely knows. When the guy goes off on assignment she goes through the year worrying about how she will be a single mother and it's boring. Christine tries to marry Tony but ends up divorcing him and raising the child alone while going through a depression. Meanwhile, Dan goes through a HORRIBLE arc after another character named Phil gets killed. Dan becomes a happy person, totally unlikable by the way, and after he gets taken advantage of he ends up a bum on the street.
This is a little hard to summarize, I realize. Thankfully, the next and last season brought the show back to form. For the most part. It was funny again, and these dramatic stories were done away with. Mostly. Dan was returned to his lecherous ways in a hilarious scene. A woman slaps him, and suddenly his old self emerges. If I could find a clip I would share it because it is a fantastic moment! To bad the show was basically DOA by that point. -
mistersparkle — 11 years ago(July 16, 2014 02:43 PM)
I don't really think it ever jumped the shark.
Maybe the Christine pregnant thing, but even then, I think her splitting with Tony was more of a jump than just that alone.
You have many question, Mr Sparkle. I send you premium answer question, hundred percent! -
Besmircher — 11 years ago(July 17, 2014 06:38 AM)
I don't think it did either. It went downhill for sure but going downhill and jumping the shark are two different things.
JTS is always marked by a particular incident in the story that is very implausible to it, a character, what have you. Christine getting married quickly, getting pregnant, etc doesn't constitute jumping the shark. I know a lot of people believe it does but the character of Christine was conservative, prudish even, so getting married and pregnant isn't out of the question. Not really. If it was Dan suddenly getting married and getting a respectable woman pregnant, I could easily agree. But not Christine.
Christine's marriage and pregnancy are nowhere near as implausible for her character as water skiing over a shark was for Fonzie, or when a lot of the family sitcoms back then suddenly added a young kid to their family toward the show's end (Diff'rent Strokes & Danny Cooksey, Growing Pains & DiCaprio, etc). Unless there's another tacky moment that I've yet to see. -
morecowbell2004 — 11 years ago(July 17, 2014 04:39 PM)
I basically ignore seasons 8 and 9, and most of 7. Mostly because of what they did to Dan. The complex ass with a heart of gold deep underneath became this unredeemable half-insane idiot that childishly goes slinking after Christine? Screw them for ruining one of my all-time favorite characters. After Weege left, it is worthless except to see Larroquette chew up the scenery like a boss.
Watson! This is no time for Humbugs -
hnt_dnl — 11 years ago(July 27, 2014 12:15 AM)
I agree that Season 5 is the pinnacle of the show's comedy. It really toned down on the sentimentality in that season and just went all out nuts on the physical humor. I agree that introducing a baby jumped the shark. But I always wanted Christine and Harry to get together, so I hated the whole getting married to the cop, having a baby storyline. And that cop wasn't funny at all. Don't see the reason for introducing this dull, recurring character to the mix.
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MichaelMovieLoft — 10 years ago(February 11, 2016 08:38 PM)
I have to agree with the consensus that the show jumped the shark after season 6 when Reinhold Weege left. For the first six seasons, the show was funny, the writing was on target and Weege could get the best out of his cast and crew. After Season 6, there was season 7 which was touch and go, and then then dreaded seasons 8 & 9 where the writing was mediocre. There were some funny moments but it didn't feel like Night Court especially with the contrived storylines like Christine/Tony, The Phil Foundation, Nice Dan, Lisette the Ditzy Court Stenographer, and the Harry/Margaret romance. It just stopped becoming Must See TV. Watching the series finale was like being in The Twilight Zone as well. It's like they lost interest and just phoned it in. It is probably one of the worst series finales I have ever watched.
MM -
!!!deleted!!! (49761343) — 10 years ago(March 28, 2016 05:20 PM)
I literally haven't seen Night Court since its first run, but to this day I remember that it was Christine's pregnancy that pretty much signaled the beginning of the end of the show.
Emojis=
Emoticons= -
stargazer24 — 9 years ago(April 22, 2016 11:45 PM)
Whenever Lisette showed up. Worst character ever, and then they hook her up with the most annoying actor in the world. I can take Dan being anything, Christine/Tony, and the general decline in humor, but those two characters? No way.