Finale
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Phaenon — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 04:00 PM)
As I said Adlerian I thought that the whole thing was dealt with heavy handedly.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with addressing prior racism or not being sure of how to deal with it today effectively but beyond that there wasn't much of a story.
I've no issue with a black Captain America but I do want them to do doing cool stuff rather than just be black.
I agree with you on the lack of super-serum but they might be able to retcon that with the suit being Stark tech and Steve Rogers seeing Sam's full potential.
Bucky didn't get to do much and I felt that the story was just about getting a black Captain America and not much else.
Hopefully season 2 will expand upon the chemistry between Sam and Bucky and get the pace back up.
Don't even start me on the both job that was the opening action in episode 1!
Ding Dong
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TheAdlerian — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 04:43 PM)
I agree about the story.
I have been in dangerous crisis situations and if a person is helping you, thinking about them being black, etc doesn't cross your mind. Just the same, unlike 80s movies, I don't get the urge to impregnate anyone in the middle of a crisis, lol.
If you work at Walmart people might blow you off extra if you're black, but probably not much more than the white guy. So, it's kind of absurd that a black guy in a winged flying suit who fought aliens and whatever would be dismissed. The story about his boat situation was absurd.
As I've said about crisis, if you were fighting HYDRA, etc and you know all of that's real, it would be all consuming. So many aspects of the story are forced and illogical.
A side story about blacks in America could be done well via interpersonal relationships Falcon has. How Falcon decides to stand up for American values is something that could be wormed into the story after arguments with loved ones and so on.
That's why I liked the speech at the end. I thought it was realistic.
What you said about Falcon and Bucky is right. The show is a military spy story, like James Bond. They need to keep it on target where these guys as thinking and making moves. By the end, I barely knew who was doing what and why.
We had Super Antifa vs Falcon…..I guess. If that's what it was, more plot was needed.
Again though, I hate Replacement Captian America.
The US Agent was a story to show THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT because Steve Rogers was one of a kind. The same thing goes for Batman.
There can't be a "New Batman" because Bruce Wayne was driven crazy as a child by watching his parents get murdered and it made him extremely focused in a superhuman manner. So, you could only dress up like Batman, but you can't be him as a normal person.
Same thing with Cap. US Agent wanted to be Cap, but he could not because he did not have the same idealistic beliefs. That was covered in the first Cap movie and was faithful to the comics.
Plus, it's weird low slef-esteem to be a superhero called The Falcon and then go, nope I"m Captain America! I'm like that other dude!
He could have changed his name to The Eagle or something, but for real, no famous person would change their name like that. It shows Sam doesn't care about Falcon, which is weak.
It's racist, as I've said.
Black Panther and Falcon were created by Stan Lee, etc to give black kids heroes and get them interested in comics. It's super wrong to rob them of their identity which is almost 50 years old. -
Phaenon — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 04:53 PM)
I don't mind switching characters around when there is a story for it and I thought that the character of Sam did a good thing doing so within a story which was pretty weak elsewhere.
Nobody seems bothered that Nick Fury is black now and so I think a lot of this "Thinking" is racist in and of itself and staged to have folks think that racism is anywhere as real as they think it is.
Objectively the story was weak beyond the black aspect which I hope gets dropped in favour of hope, the way Steve Rogers would have had it, and we get an actual Marvel story with at least mention of other Avengers and the wider universe that they've established.
Ding Dong
!
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TheAdlerian — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 05:18 PM)
I don't like that Nick Fury is black.
It's racist.
Make NEW black characters.
As I recall, Nick Fury is a WWII vet that had some kind of life extension treatment and is his own type of superhero. For the movies it's let's make him a black guy muthafuckah!
Nick has no story in the movies and comes on and does Samuel Jackson stuff. He's a "let's put a black guy as boss" racist character.
They would never have a Chinese Nick Fury, due to their racism. They have to put in a black Nick Fury, due to their racism.
Marvel comics movies have tons of this type of racism and I hate it.
They could cast a Chinese guy as Mandarin, because they said it's racist, so they gave no Chinese guy a hgh pay check and fame, because they put an English actor in his place.
It's disgusting. -
Phaenon — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 05:30 PM)
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
will have a Chinese guy as the real Mandarin
I think Nick Fury works best in the shadows and his story will be one built upon the entirety of the Marvel cinematic universe.
I'm not saying that you don't have a point with creating new characters rather than sacrificing some for a diversity quota but it is just fiction and should be accessible to more people through association.
Disney is racist though and that is something people should be focussing on rather than who plays who in a fictional comic book setting.
Ding Dong
!
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TheAdlerian — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 05:44 PM)
I just think it's gross and confusing you have comics about human achievements and unity peppered with all of this tokenism.
It objectifies black people almost always.
It's never a Mongolian Thor, Spiderman, etc it's always blacks as if they're the only other minority. It "sucks their dick" while objectifying them at the same time, which is weird to the extreme. I don't understand the psychology of it.
Meanwhile, it's a creative medium with extremely creative characters and history, but they can't invent new stuff? It should be unlimited.
Meanwhile, a real Mandarin in Shang Chi is great! -
Phaenon — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 06:02 PM)
Tokenism will hopefully die away once good new characters are created and people can be proud of heroes they relate to.
It will happen but, as you say, this inverse racism has to be gone first.
I still think Samuel Jackson rocks it as Nick Fury though.
Ding Dong
!
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TheAdlerian — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 06:16 PM)
I like him in general.
Mace Windu!
I would watch that movie. That's an original character.
Marvel has been doing Tokenism since the 90s. Ironically, they came up with classic original black character stories in the 60s and 70s. So, they went from really committing to doing a good job to covert racism as time moved forward.
It's a strange progression but there has to be someone in power there who is no educated and doesn't get what they're doing.
On a side note:
I noticed that many English shows on Netflix are filled with Tokenism.
There's some historical Elizabethan story with royalty black, a Sherlock Holmes spinoff with Watson as black, and I watched two episodes of Shadow and Bone which is in alternate reality Russia and there's blacks.
They always pop up in these "leadership" roles and it makes no sense how or why they're there. In addition, they always have the actors act in this "no nonsense" eloquent manner as if blacks were "in charge" in ancient times.
If I was a black actor I would be pissed.
The twist I have seen on all that is that not only is it tokenism, it erases the struggle blacks had during these time periods.
There's some Chinese kid at home thinking, "Man those blacks had it made!" and so on lol. -
Phaenon — 4 years ago(April 25, 2021 06:29 PM)
Yeah the tokenism will stop once there's enough modern content to focus on modernity and the populations which inhabit Western civilisation now but for the meantime I wouldn't worry about it too much outside of period pieces or real life events which had crucial actors in roles which should be respected.
I'm sure we'll all laugh at how it currently is in twenty years or so the same way we laugh at flared trousers and hippies from the 60s
Ding Dong
!