I thought this movie was spectacular!
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deadpixel128 — 9 years ago(October 24, 2016 04:31 PM)
That idea is interesting, but like everything else in the movie, it's poorly executed. Well, no, actually, it's not really executed at all. You get the montage of TV people, but that's about it. It certainly doesn't factor into the plot. For a film's ideas to matter, it needs to follow through on them. This movie has a lot of ideas, but they're just thrown around for a scene or two and never discussed again.
If you can't defend a movie without bashing another, you will be put on ignore. No exceptions. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 24, 2016 07:24 PM)
Most people enjoyed the movie.
Don't take the haters too seriously. Most of the hate comes from a small (but loud) minority.
For instance, take this message board for example. At a glance, it looks flooded with negativity. But click on the names of any of the haters on this message board, including the ones replying on this thread, and look at their comment histories. You'll see it's the same small handful of haters posting an excessive amount of negative comments. Anyone who wastes hours per day, every single day, coming back to the message board of a half-a-year old movie they hated, just to remind everyone again and again that they hated the movie, and keeps it up nonstop is just obsessed to an unhealthy degree, so their opinions shouldn't really count.
Genuinely hated movies don't make $870 million at the box office and top home video sales. -
CichlidAsh — 9 years ago(October 24, 2016 08:04 PM)
Most people enjoyed the movie.
As most people do not actually comment on the internet about their opinions of movies where did you get this information from? Given that the DC has a massive fan base that is known to deliberately up vote its movies the fact that BvS only has a 64% liked vote seems extremely low, for comparison Civil War has a 90% liked vote and The Dark Knight 94%, Man Of Steel 75% so BvS has an extremely low like ratio for a DC property and I am willing to bet that if we could separate the general publics vote from the DC Fanboys it would be lower than 50%. Still we have no method of doing that sadly.
Genuinely hated movies don't make $870 million at the box office and top home video sales.
A movie that should have easily be guaranteed at least a billion dollars making only $870 is a relatively pathetic performance. Don't believe me look at The Dark Knight box office numbers of just over $1 billion and that is a eight year old movie and I have not value adjusted it. Making less money from a movie featuring two of the most iconic character in its title than a movie eight years old is not good, when you top that off with having the most iconic female superhero and two of the biggest villains in the movie then make of it what you will but for me it says underperformance.
To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script and the script -Alfred Hitchcock -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 24, 2016 09:34 PM)
As most people do not actually comment on the internet about their opinions of movies
If you've already established that Internet scores are untrustworthy, then why are you continuing on with that train of thought? (And why are you citing Rotten Tomatoes scores even though we're on IMDB?) Just as you can dismiss the scores for upvotes from the fan base, I can just as easily dismiss the scores for downvotes from haters. Ignoring the scores altogether, the only objective way to gauge audience reaction is by its box office numbers, which are very good.
if we could separate the general publics vote from the DC Fanboys it would be lower than 50%
Don't make baseless claims.
$870 is a relatively pathetic performance
For some context, in the entire year of 2015, only six movies made more than BvS has made this year. Six movies on the entire planet in the entire year. So to call $870 pathetic, you are really stretching it.
Making less money from a movie featuring two of the most iconic character in its title than a movie eight years old is not good
If it's such a "pathetic performance" to make less than previous movies featuring the same characters, would you then say that the box office performance of Batman Begins was "pathetic?" Batman Begins made significantly less than much older movies: Batman, Batman Returns, & Batman Forever. But I doubt that you'd be willing to call Batman Begins pathetic, because you obviously seem to like the Dark Knight franchise. Don't try to change the rules according to which franchise you like (Dark Knight franchise) and which you don't like (DCEU).
Truth is it's normal for rebooted franchises to start lower before it trends back upwards, just as it was for the Dark Knight movies, just as it is for the modern DCEU. -
cwamne_h — 9 years ago(October 24, 2016 10:14 PM)
The way I see it, I won't blame anyone for liking it or hating. Me personally, not a fan of it, because it's all over the place, needed better editing, wasn't a fan of the CGI, didn't like some of the characterization like Batman trying to kill Superman. I wouldn't say that's hating on the film.
I wouldn't be surprised that some people like it, the way it was shot was great, minus the CGI was great. Amazing cast, Ben Afleck kills it as Bruce. And the Batman and Superman show down of course. They also showed a whole new side to this.
And it's not really the Dark Knight series thing, every reboot is different and people generally like it. People loved Batman and Batman Returns, and although Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were the sequels, hated those. Now I'm not saying this was that bad, obviously not nearly. Only a small minority of people just like one particular series, even the Dark Knight series got it, but its rating was much higher, same with Burton's Batman films, although not drastically higher.
I would say among Batman films its somewhere around Batman, definitely better than Batman Forever, either as good as Batman or kinda close to it. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 11:29 AM)
You're only looking at critics' scores & reviews. Not much more than 300 or so professional critics reviewed this movie, a puny number compared to the global audience. Audience scores & reviews are generally positive.
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deadpixel128 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 04:02 PM)
The Cinemascore is B, which sounds impressive until you realize it's the same score as Green Lantern and Catwoman.
The box office results are absurdly low for a film with this much hype and with such a strong opening weekend.
The average audience rating on RT is 3.6/5, and only 64% of reviews were positive. The IMDb score is 6.8, absurdly low for a film of this type. This is even when you consider that DC fanboys are known to artificially inflate scores for DC films.
If you can't defend a movie without bashing another, you will be put on ignore. No exceptions. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 05:13 PM)
The Cinemascore is B, which sounds impressive until you realize it's the same score as Green Lantern and Catwoman.
Cinemascore is an outdated relic of the past that still thinks the Internet hasn't been invented yet. There are better ways than asking a few random people in a few random locations what they thought and only on opening weekend. Cinemascore touts itself as a predictor of box office success, but if a box office flop like Catwoman can get the same score as BvS, the fifth highest grossing movie so far this year, clearly their system doesn't work so well.
The box office results are absurdly low
I already pointed this out in this thread, but I'll say it again. For some context, in the entire year of 2015, only six movies made more than BvS has made this year. Six movies on the entire planet in the entire year. So to call $870+ million "absurdly low," you are really stretching it.
The average audience rating on RT is 3.6/5, and only 64% of reviews were positive. The IMDb score is 6.8, absurdly low for a film of this type.
Maybe you've lost track of what this discussion is about, but I believe what was being disputed was my claim that most people enjoyed the movie. If more people rated it in the 6-10 range than in the 1-5 range, guess what, those scores still prove that most people liked the movie.
BvS is only one tenth of a point lower than one of my personal favorite Marvel movies, Captain America, 2011, (6.9 on IMDB). Are you gonna argue that most people hated that movie too?
DC fanboys are known to artificially inflate scores for DC films
Funny, coming from one of the daily haters on this board. Don't even pretend like you haven't devoted a significant chunk of your waking hours to doing nothing but hanging around here attacking this movie. I can see your comment history showing how long you've been on this board. I don't know if there are "DC fanboys" inflating the scores, but there's pretty clearly a community of haters obsessed with pulling the scores down. -
deadpixel128 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 05:23 PM)
When you completely dismiss all the evidence that refutes your argument, anything can be defended.
All you've done is ignore the evidence, lie, and insult people. I merely presented evidence that points to BvS being poorly-received by the general audience. You decided to attack me personally and stick your head in the sand.
If you can't defend a movie without bashing another, you will be put on ignore. No exceptions. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 05:30 PM)
I merely presented evidence that points to BvS being poorly-received by the general audience.
Except the scores you've cited in your own comment only proved my point. More people rated it positively than not.
You decided to attack me personally and stick your head in the sand.
All of a sudden you're SO sensitive to insults now, even though you're one of the ones hanging around here daily, attacking everyone who likes the movie? Gimme a break. -
deadpixel128 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 06:22 PM)
Except the scores you've cited in your own comment only proved my point. More people rated it positively than not.
Let's take the RT score for a minute. Currently, it's at 64% for the audience. This is around the same audience score that The Amazing Spider-Man 2 has. Actually, it's one percent lower, but that's within the margin of error. TASM2 was considered so bad that the studio sold the rights to Marvel and cancelled an entire cinematic universe that they had planned. BvS is considered just as bad, but somehow it's a success that most people like? TASM2 even had a higher critic rating!
This is the difference: you look at the number only, whereas I take the context into account. $872 million is certainly a lot of money, but considering the last movie with Batman in it made over a billion, the amount of hype the movie had, and the novelty of seeing these characters on-screen together for the first time, it is clearly below expectations. 64% is certainly a majority, but considering that other films with similar scores were considered failures, it stands to reason that BvS should also be considered a failure.
All of a sudden you're SO sensitive to insults now, even though you're one of the ones hanging around here daily, attacking everyone who likes the movie? Gimme a break.
I attack the movie, not people. The only people I insult are those who do not deserve my respect. People like Joby Dimms, Ramboman, etc. These people have not only insulted people, they have called for murder of anyone who does not share their opinion. I don't see anything wrong with insulting these people, when all they do is spread hatred. I will not, however, insult reasonable people who do not do these things. I will bash the film to no end, but I will not attack normal people who like it.
If you can't defend a movie without bashing another, you will be put on ignore. No exceptions. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 09:37 PM)
it's at 64% for the audience. This is around the same audience score that The Amazing Spider-Man 2 has. Actually, it's one percent lower
Nitpicking the scores again? You conveniently ignored my point of Captain America 2011 having a mere one-tenth of a point lead over BvS, by the way. You were going on and on about how BvS's score is "absurdly low," how it's proof of poor reception from the general audience, yet a beloved Marvel movie has just about the same score. Explain that one.
TASM2 was considered so bad that the studio sold the rights to Marvel and cancelled an entire cinematic universe that they had planned. This is the difference: you look at the number only, whereas I take the context into account
Here's some context for you: Amazing Spider-Man 2's box office was the low point of a consistent downward trend with each iteration of the Spider-Man movies making less money than the previous one. That is why the series was ended. You failed to recognize this. If you think some arbitrary RT scores or worthless critics ratings had anything to do with its cancellation whatsoever, you're missing the big picture.
In contrast, BvS is part of an upwards trend from Man of Steel, which, along with the spin-off/follow-up Suicide Squad exceeding all expectations, is good a good sign for the DCEU. BvS's total numbers actually rank decently high compared to previous movies in the Batman franchise and especially high within the Superman franchise. Yet you're trying to call all this a failure?
considering the last movie with Batman in it made over a billion it stands to reason that BvS should also be considered a failure
Just because it didn't beat the top movie of the past, Dark Knight, is hardly a reason to call it a failure. You're trying to make a big deal of BvS making less than Dark Knight, but it's natural for rebooted franchises to start lower before it trends back upwards.
Here's a point I brought up above, but got no reply, so I'll bring it up again: Just look at Batman Begins. Batman Begins made significantly less money than Batman (1989), Batman Returns, and Batman Forever. In fact, Batman Begins made almost the same box office money as Superman Returns, a film that failed to reboot the Superman Franchise.
It's normal for a rebooted franchise to not necessarily retain the entire fanbase of the previous series, thus start lower before it trends back up again, just as it was with the Dark Knight series, just as it is going for the DCEU. However, using the logic you've been using throughout this discussion, you'd have to consider Batman Begins a massive failure for failing to beat all those much older Batman movies. -
deadpixel128 — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 06:53 AM)
You conveniently ignored my point of Captain America 2011 having a mere one-tenth of a point lead over BvS, by the way.
I ignored it because it has nothing to do with this discussion. In any event, outside of IMDb, the ratings are generally very solid, leaving IMDb as an outlier. Every rating for BvS is bad.
Here's some context for you: Amazing Spider-Man 2's box office was the low point of a consistent downward trend with each iteration of the Spider-Man movies making less money than the previous one.
Valid.
BvS's total numbers actually rank decently high compared to previous movies in the Batman franchise and especially high within the Superman franchise.
This is not "just" a Batman movie or "just" a Superman movie. This was expected to compete with Avengers; this was expected to outdo Civil War in terms of box office results. Comparing it to the f#cking Burton and Schumaker movies is laughable.
You're trying to make a big deal of BvS making less than Dark Knight, but it's natural for rebooted franchises to start lower before it trends back upwards.
But it's totally fine to compare it to the Burton and Schumaker movies, right?
Batman Begins made significantly less money than Batman (1989), Batman Returns, and Batman Forever. In fact, Batman Begins made almost the same box office money as Superman Returns, a film that failed to reboot the Superman Franchise.
Begins also had a significantly smaller budget than Superman Returns and was very well-received by critics and audiences. In addition, though its final box office intake was fairly low, it did perform above expectations based on its opening weekend.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Batman-Begins#box-office
Meanwhile, Superman Returns received mediocre reviews and disinterest from the general public, and, unlike Begins, failed to make twice its budget, which is the general rule of thumb for a movie to be considered a success.
BvS not only received poor reviews from critics and mediocre reviews from general audiences, it failed to meet even the lowest expectations based on its opening weekend.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Batman-v-Superman-Dawn-of-Justice#tab=box-office
If you can't defend a movie without bashing another, you will be put on ignore. No exceptions. -
Chiller7 — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 03:18 PM)
I ignored it because it has nothing to do with this discussion
So you get to go on and on about BvS & Amazing Spiderman 2 having nearly the same score as proof that both movies are bad. But BvS & Captain America having nearly the same score has nothing to do with this discussion? Okay, hypocrite.
outside of IMDb, the ratings are generally very solid, leaving IMDb as an outlier. Every rating for BvS is bad.
How about Metacritic's user score of 7.0/10? Are you gonna dismiss that as another outlier? Your own words: "When you completely dismiss all the evidence that refutes your argument, anything can be defended."
But it's totally fine to compare it to the Burton and Schumaker movies, right?
I never claimed you can't compare to older movies at all. The point I was making was that the drop from Dark Knight to BvS is normal part of rebooting the franchise. This reason excuses BvS for not beating Dark Knight, just like it excuses Batman Begins for not beating the Burton/Schumacher Batmans, just like it excuses Casino Royale for not beating past James Bond movies, same for so many other reboots. You, on the other hand, jumped all over BvS for not beating Dark Knight, but refused to apply the same rules to Batman Begins. Hypocrite.
make twice its budget, which is the general rule of thumb for a movie to be considered a success
Yeah, and BvS made three and a half times its budget, but you insist it's a failure. Okay, hypocrite.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Batman-Begins#box-office
Thanks, by the way, for introducing me to that numbers website. Interesting stats on there. $60 million so far in home video sales? Yeah, what a failure