A feminist girl power movie
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mddwbsst — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 12:48 PM)
Ah the definition of 3rd wave feminist bigotry. Girl power to the exclusion of all else is just sexism from the other direction. Most men (myself included) aren't at all upset by equality but when the goal is superiority and the excuse is, history of your fathers or abuse by your genetic group, requires an amount of privilege that is excusing the behavior in yourself that you abhor in others. Only the women are cool and smart. Men can only be buffoons or villains, is this the lesson you want your son(s) to learn?
I think we should go any further I think I should point out I'm a man to.
I just think some of these discussions are ridiculous. I mean Wonder Woman is a feminist icon. She was created to be someone girls could look up to. And its a movie set in a time before the majority of women even had the right to vote, in the war that changed all that.
Of course its going to touch upon feminism. How does that automatically translate to "All women are saints, all men are stupid or evil". Even going by the trailers what have we seen to support this idea? Steve doesn't seem particularly bad or stupid. Doctor Poison isn't exactly a nice person (heck with the exception of Cheshire and Junior, she's the vilest woman in DC Comics)
I obviously don't support misandry, its in no way better than misogyny. Its just I've noticed that a lot of discussions on Feminism end up deteriorating into "you got everything you wanted in the 60's, why are you still complaining?" I'll tell you now, its quite simple really, there still complaining cause there are still a lot of things that need to be changed.
Obviously if this movie was to extreme that would be a failure. But when people's reactions to anything remotely feminist is to act like there in some way being targeted it kind of makes you wonder if they don't have a point.
As for opinions why are theirs any less valuable then yours?
Well it might be a bit controversial, but I've always held that stupid ideas aren't as valid as sensible ones.
If they have a point I'll listen to it. If they start acting like there being attacked then frankly I'm not interested.
This is true, but it did have an agenda, it was made visible as an agenda by the director and some of the cast, and it was done so poorly and so offensively that the end result is that equality is now harder, making a successful female centric movie is harder, and new attempts at true equality may be seen as grasping for privilege whether they are or not.
True, very true. -
CelluloidAdmirer — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 05:33 PM)
I just think some of these discussions are ridiculous
I second that but when you have extremists on both sides, they're not going away.
I mean Wonder Woman is a feminist icon. She was created to be someone girls could look up to.
I have no knowledge of the history of comics but I've been told that the Wonder Woman creator originally made her to be a symbol for true supremacy and total domination and not for equality.
IMO, entertainment should be about just that, entertainment and not to be preached to or to have our intelligence insulted.
Its just I've noticed that a lot of discussions on Feminism end up deteriorating into "you got everything you wanted in the 60's, why are you still complaining?" I'll tell you now, its quite simple really, there still complaining cause there are still a lot of things that need to be changed.
Let's be honest. It's difficult for all of us and now whites are becoming public enemy #1 just by association and have to carry the burden of the past that they had nothing to do with.
I saw a video of some BLM members beating up on a white guy solely for being white and it embarrasses me as a black person myself when I see hatred like this.
I saw that OJ doc and I was surprised that the majority of the black community supported OJ just to stick it to white people and I just shook my head in shame.
As for Feig's Ghostbusters, we had successful female centric movies that men and women alike enjoyed and it was because the filmmakers worked to make the best movie possible and want to entertain the public. -
mddwbsst — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 10:36 AM)
I second that but when you have extremists on both sides, they're not going away.
Yeah its true. Still we have to keep trying.
I have no knowledge of the history of comics but I've been told that the Wonder Woman creator originally made her to be a symbol for true supremacy and total domination and not for equality.
Well its a bit more complicated than that. He created her cause he didn't like that the female characters in the comics of the day were either extremely passive and weak, or hyper-masculine.
He didn't think either was a good role model for young girls. So he created a character who was there own hero, but still embodied a lot of femininity.
However he did also have a few other views that were a bit lesswell put simply the guy believed in loving submission. He was okay with the idea of submitting to a benevolent force, and had something of a bondage fetish.
And these ideas seeped into his writing. Hence why originally Wonder Woman's weakness was if she was ever imprisoned, she would lose her powers until she either freed herself or was set free.
And why she would often completely dominate her opponents over simply beating them up.
His intent was still overall pretty good though. I mean he created a strong female character who wasn't remotely ashamed of being feminine in 1940. A lot of people today struggle with that.
IMO, entertainment should be about just that, entertainment and not to be preached to or to have our intelligence insulted
I slightly agree. But I have no problems if you use entertainment to get a message across. Just as long as you don't compromise your integrity and lose sight of the entertainment.
George Orwell made a career out of it. All his stories convey his views on Fascism, Capitalism, Colonialism, Totalitarianism and overall the dangers of how fragile freedom really could be. Doesn't mean they aren't still great reads even if you don't care about the politics.
Let's be honest. It's difficult for all of us and now whites are becoming public enemy #1 just by association and have to carry the burden of the past that they had nothing to do with.
I saw a video of some BLM members beating up on a white guy solely for being white and it embarrasses me as a black person myself when I see hatred like this.
I saw that OJ doc and I was surprised that the majority of the black community supported OJ just to stick it to white people and I just shook my head in shame.
Yeah, its a problem with human thought that often we can't separate the individual from the group. I've done it far to many times. I'm sure you've done the same.
And of course it goes backwards. Really I honestly don't know what to say other than history is full of cases like this. And they always end making everything worse for everyone.
No one likes feeling oppressed, and when those feelings boil over people often do things that make them no better than what there supposed to be against. Really extremism for any cause or any reason is only ever going to get more people hurt.
As for Feig's Ghostbusters, we had successful female centric movies that men and women alike enjoyed and it was because the filmmakers worked to make the best movie possible and want to entertain the public.
Yeah and that should always be there goal when making a movie. I'm okay with films having messages, but they should never lose sight of the goal to entertain. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 06, 2017 05:17 PM)
He didn't think either was a good role model for young girls. So he created a character who was there own hero, but still embodied a lot of femininity.
When people talk about role models for young girls, they actually mean role models for their middle aged mothers.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 08, 2017 03:23 AM)
Yeah, they try to push a doll called Wallflower Wendy (who is more "realistic" with stretch marks and stuff) onto little girls who would rather play with Barbie anyway (who's purpose to be pretty), try to get them to do boy things for their "self esteem" (AKA the mother's insecurities), etc.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 06, 2017 05:10 PM)
I have no knowledge of the history of comics but I've been told that the Wonder Woman creator originally made her to be a symbol for true supremacy and total domination and not for equality.
That's pretty much the definition of feminism.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 06, 2017 05:08 PM)
Its just I've noticed that a lot of discussions on Feminism end up deteriorating into "you got everything you wanted in the 60's, why are you still complaining?"
Actually, they got everything they wanted BEFORE then.
I'll tell you now, its quite simple really, there still complaining cause there are still a lot of things that need to be changed.
Yeah, women need to stop raping people, stop lying about being raped, stop assaulting people, stop complaining about problems that don't actually exist, top supporting countries where the things they complain about exactly exist, etc.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
mddwbsst — 9 years ago(January 07, 2017 03:36 AM)
Actually, they got everything they wanted BEFORE then.
How much before are we talking?
Yeah, women need to stop raping people, stop lying about being raped, stop assaulting people, stop complaining about problems that don't actually exist, top supporting countries where the things they complain about exactly exist, etc.
Of course they do, and so do men. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 07, 2017 05:30 AM)
How much before are we talking?
Well, they've had equal rights for millenials, many times even being a protected group.
Of course they do, and so do men.
Never heard of any men lie about being raped and the only men who complain about problems that don't exist are male feminazis.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
mddwbsst — 9 years ago(January 07, 2017 08:27 AM)
Well, they've had equal rights for millenials, many times even being a protected group.
You consider not having the right to vote, right to legal help, or right to your own children, as equal rights?
Never heard of any men lie about being raped
Well I'm sure one or two have tried it.
Plenty others lie about being robbed, assaulted, and money every day.
and the only men who complain about problems that don't exist are male feminazis.
There are plenty of fella's who complain about problems that don't exist. You can barely go outside without hearing someone yelling nonsense. -
JasonRebourne — 9 years ago(January 08, 2017 03:13 AM)
You consider not having the right to vote, right to legal help, or right to your own children, as equal rights?
Men could only vote in exchange for fighting in beep trenches, you idiot. Did the women try to get in the army or give everyone the vote. Nope, they wanted for free what others literally had to fight for. All the other things, women have almost always had rights to (and when they didn't they were things men also didn't have rights to), many cases such as rights to own children, they usually got more rights to.
Well I'm sure one or two have tried it.
Plenty others lie about being robbed, assaulted, and money every day.
I doubt they were lying and none of those things are rape.
There are plenty of fella's who complain about problems that don't exist. You can barely go outside without hearing someone yelling nonsense.
Those people are feminazis.
I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies. -
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loki242 — 9 years ago(December 29, 2016 10:27 AM)
Is feminist the idea that men and women are equal and a woman beating the crap out of a man is believable and celebrated but a man punching a woman is deplorable and disgusts people?
Is that the idea behind brainwashing little girls with movie after movie showing all women as "kick ass" and then growing up and trying that non sense in the real world and getting knocked the F out? Is it also the idea that when I'm out shopping I hear over the PA system "I need a male associate to the garden center to lift something that the woman working there who demands equal pay cant lift"
So basically feminism is like the force from Star Wars it isn't real right?
Obama got 43% of the white vote, McCain got 5% of the black vote. Who's the racist again?