Just like a man *should* be able to walk home without a complete stranger following him home and calling the police on t
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hagerp — 9 years ago(October 10, 2016 12:24 PM)
I only just watched episode #1 - sorry to hear that the series purveys the false idea that Trayvon was just an innocent kid. I did a seminar on media bias 4 years ago which used the hype and what was almost certainly deliberate editing of video and the 911 call to push a false narrative. Most of the sources I relied on came from the political left, not the right. For example, the
complete
911 Transcript was obtained by Mother Jones. Here was the NBC edit of Zimmerman:
This guy looks like hes up to no good. He looks black.
Here is the complete quote:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like hes up to no good, or hes on drugs or something. Its raining and hes just walking around, looking about.
911 operator: Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
The site Talk-Left, maintained by liberal Democrat criminal defense attorney Jeralyn Merrit also looked at media misrepresentation:
So the blatant, racially charged distortion of George Zimmerman's 911 call started on NBC 6 Miami on March 19, appearing in two articles by three different writers. It was repeated on March 20 in an article attributed to one of the three writers. The articles have been updated, but the quotes remain. The mis-quote aired on the Today Show on March 22 during a live segment with reporter Lilia Luciano, and again on March 27 with reporter Ron Allen.
. . .
It also seems that NBC 6 Miami has a systemic problem. Their writers are repeating false information from one story to the next, spreading it like a virus. Not just one writer, but several. Not just one time, but multiple times. Even after two weeks, and notwithstanding updates to the original articles, the three articles with the distorted, racially charged quote are still up on NBC 6 Miami's website. I think the responsibility for that lies with NBC 6 Miami's senior management. They need a jolt. Demoting them or transferring them to the boondocks would be a good start. It would also send the appropriate message to their replacements.
ABC put out a very low-def video of Zimmerman, highlighting what it claimed was no injuries to his head shortly after the event. A subsequent hi-def version of the same video clearly showed injuries.
All of this was before the trial. A jury heard all of the evidence, both eye witness and forensic. Zimmerman was rightly acquitted of all charges.
There has been a long history of trying people in the media - read up on the Dr. Sam Sheppard case. The Supreme Court ultimately overturned the conviction because the jury at his trial was so completely biased by media bias. In his subsequent trial, Sheppard was acquitted.
The criminal trial should have been the final word. Yet, the writer of the show appears to have been so intellectually lazy he couldn't be bothered to get his facts straight. -
bando_red — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 12:49 AM)
I dunno man. I'm a white, redneck, libertarian but tend to lean heavily right when it comes to dindu nuffins, BLM, and other cancers in african-american culture and community. I heard complaints that the show was too black. I figured I was gonna hate it, especially with how preachy marvel can get.
I was very pleasantly surprised. It humanizes the suffering and reactionary feelings that bring non-violent people to do violent or immoral things. It shows that thug or cop, white or black, there's good and bad in every group of people. It shows that even pieces of beep like cottonmouth and scarfe had and have the capability for good in them, something I forget myself often.
It brings up topical social issues in a way that feels organic and interwoven to the plot. It portrays them as the ammoral, complex situations that they are rather than hamfisted "good vs bad" conflicts. More importantly, it shines a spotlight on how politicians, the media, and other assorted scumbags capitalize on and exploit these things for their own gain and how ordinary, decent folks suffer from it, whether they're a white cop or a black kid.
There is a distinct "message" in the show, at least to me, but its one I fully support and doesn't feel forced. Rather, it feels like something you just sort of slowly absorb . It's something thats relevant to everyone, but especially african-american men.
"Don't be a n****, be a Man"
You always have a choice in life. Own your beep and do the right thing. Fix your mistakes, make better choices next time. Always Forward. -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 07:20 AM)
Trayvon Martin was 17 years old when he died. He had no criminal record and on the night in question he was carrying skittles and a fruit juice beverage. Those are facts. Being a "good boy" or "bad boy" in that context is completely irrelevant. Neither is an excuse for someone to shoot someone dead.
In accordance to the early call to the police that George Zimmerman himself made they urged him to not approach Trayvon Martin. He did and regardless of whose to blame for what a 17-year old kid was killed.
Americans if anyone should know that sometimes good people die by firearms. You have statistics on how many toddlers accidentally shot someone! Much less an overzealous neighborhood watchman who made a huge mistake and killed someone. Sure, the law didn't find him guilty. That still doesn't make it right.
And I really don't think it's a nefarious end to try to portray Trayvon Martin as a young man who met his death far too early. In fact there were stories about his school records and accusations of stolen jewelry (despite charges never being filed) as to somehow justify his death. That, if anything, is nefarious. To try to justify the death of a teenager over his school record! -
Dismissed — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 08:48 AM)
Trayvon Martin was 17 years old when he died. He had no criminal record and on the night in question he was carrying skittles and a fruit juice beverage. Those are facts. Being a "good boy" or "bad boy" in that context is completely irrelevant. Neither is an excuse for someone to shoot someone dead.
According to evidence presented at trial, it is also a fact that Martin was viciously assaulting Zimmerman, to include bashing his head into the concrete. Honesty forbids leaving out pertinent information.
In accordance to the early call to the police that George Zimmerman himself made they urged him to not approach Trayvon Martin. He did
Incorrect. According to information presented at trial, Zimmerman ceased following Martin upon acknowledging "okay" to the dispatcher. By synchronizing the time on Zimmerman's and Martin's phones, the defense was able to illustrate that four minutes passed between the moment Zimmerman lost visual of Martin and the confrontation began. Also, according to trial testimony by "girlfriend" Jeantel, the confrontation was initiated by Martin, not Zimmerman.
and regardless of whose to blame for what a 17-year old kid was killed.
Correct. But it is proper to correctly assess the incident.
Much less an overzealous neighborhood watchman who made a huge mistake and killed someone.
Why do you consider him "overzealous"? Why not described him as simply being diligent? In a neighborhood that had recently been the victim of multiple burglaries, the defendant became wary of an individual who was unknown to the community and acting in a manner which he called "suspicious," telling the dispatcher that he was peering into people's homes. This is a warranted suspicion. Why do you call it "a huge mistake"? We do not know Martin's motives, but if he was, indeed, peering into Windows, then Zimmerman's behavior was not in error.
Sure, the law didn't find him guilty. That still doesn't make it right.
It appears that you are taking an emotional stance against a legal stance. Let me ask you a question: When is it ever not "right" to defend yourself against a non-self-initiated vicious assault?
And I really don't think it's a nefarious end to try to portray Trayvon Martin as a young man who met his death far too early.
Is it nefarious to provide false or misinformation with the intent of creating or supporting an incorrect narrative?
And, yes, 17 is far too early for anyone to meet their demise; however, Martin's fate is a consequence of his own actions.
In fact there were stories about his school records and accusations of stolen jewelry (despite charges never being filed) as to somehow justify his death. That, if anything, is nefarious. To try to justify the death of a teenager over his school record!
You are mistaken. Martin's history was not used to justify his death. Instead, it was used to support the claim that Martin had the capacity for deviant and violent behavior, in opposition to the notion that he was, simply, a "good boy" on his way home from the store with skittles.- Evidence of his prior drug use was used to support government claimed that the suspect looked like he was on drugs.
- Zimmerman claimed to the dispatcher that the suspect appeared to be peering into people's homes. it was revealed that martin had been stopped with "a burglary tool" and a bag full of women's jewelry. This supports the Zimmerman's contention.
- Martin had been part of a fighting ring at school and had engaged in several fights, some vicious. This supports the contention that he assaulted zimmerman
Again, none of this justifies his death; it supports his capacity to engage in these behaviors. Behaviors that the majority of the media were downplaying in their efforts to betray him in an extremely positive, "good boy" light.
Stand up. Hook up. Shuffle to the door.
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Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 12:16 PM)
Quote mining. How original.
According to the last telephone call Trayvon Martin did he described that he was being followed by a "crazy and creepy" man watching him from a car. According to Zimmerman's own testimony Martin had also started running before he told police that he had got away. Just saying. To me it looks more like a tragedy and misunderstanding than something that was of Martin's own volition.
Questioning someone's moral qualities and making a case that he was capable of deviant and violent behavior is exactly what I was speaking (writing) about.
But to humor you I will respond to your points. Because much of what was said about Trayvon Martin could also be said about George Zimmerman. And that is what I found controversial about the acquittal. There actually is evidence that Zimmerman initiated a confrontation and gave chase. And after that the only testimony is Zimmerman's own. That he was assaulted unprovoked. Now, if I had someone chasing me with a gun I would be freaked out. But, obviously, the self-defense is only something that can be claimed by the living.
The alleged drug use was trace values of marijuana. THC can remain in the blood stream in up to 30 days so it was unlikely Martin was actually on drugs. But, hey, let's be objective here. Let's just say he was a juiced up meth addict or something like that.
If we're talking about drug use Zimmerman was actually suffering from ADHD and was taking medication. Not that all people with ADHD are criminals. But scientific data do point to ADHD potentially fostering criminal behavior. Just saying.
The "burglary" tools (a flathead screwdriver!) and jewelry (12 pieces he claimed to have gotten from a friend) did not generate any police report or formal charges. So even in a legal case that would be circumstantial evidence and allegations at best. Even so it's not really indicative of violent behavior. Again though, if we're talking about criminal behavior George Zimmerman had a restraining order against him from his ex-fiance. He also had charges for underage drinking dropped against him provided he took anger-management classes.
The idea of using his text messages was part of the defense strategy. But, yeah, again let's be objective here. The defense is totally impartial. They had no interest in acquitting Zimmerman and tried to paint an as honest picture as possible. His more lying, corrupt payed-off, partial friends and family testified under oath that the was not a confrontational individual and the one to walk away from fights. Because they were misguided enough to think Trayvon Martin was a human being who didn't deserve to be shot and killed.
If we're talking about misleading information his Twitter account was subsequently hacked by a self-confessed white supremacist. An image of him making an obscene gesture was spread and published on The Daily Caller. Pictures of him wearing a grill he never wore in public was also spread to portray Martin as some he probably wasn't. They willfully omitted pictures of fishing trips with his dad and his prom suit. Now, how's that for nefarious? Right-wingers went out of their way to portray Trayvon Martin as less than human. So in response to your question, do I think it's "right" to use misleading information to paint a different picture? No. But I think we most definitively need to outweigh the hatred and negative views in society. And in that aspect I see no fault in focusing on the positive sides of the human being who was Trayvon Martin. He was a 17 year old kid who could have had a bright future if someone didn't have a lapse in judgment and started giving chase because he thought a 17-year old was a hardened criminal.
In response to your question regarding emotional versus legal response I urge you to consider that laws are not absolute. For instance the Civil Rights of 1964 and several amendments to the constitution (such as the 2nd) prove that laws do change to reflect society or because they're flawed. Also, in more corrupt legal systems around the world, it's possible to be judged on some pretend charges for just voicing your opinion. Do I think a law imposing limitations on Freedom of Speech should be respected? No, I don't.
Zimmerman was charged with murder. He was acquitted of murder. But I still it's highly questionable to start chasing a 17 year while carrying a gun. According to Zimmerman's own account the two started wrestle over the gun. I believe that if you own a lethal weapon you should keep it as safe as possible. Preferably locked in a gun cabinet.
Either way: If his moral character doesn't justify his death how does all this invalidate Luke's remark on the show? In fact: How does it negate the tragedy of what happened to Trayvon Martin? -
The_Mob_Has_Spoken — 9 years ago(October 13, 2016 08:14 PM)
According to the last telephone call Trayvon Martin did he described that he was being followed by a "crazy and creepy" man watching him from a car.
Actually, as you probably know, Martin's exact words were "creepy-ass cracker," which on top of everything else proves that Martin was the biggest racist in the whole case. Quote mining? lol
"I like simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth." - Floyd Gondolli -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 02:00 AM)
Actually, according to her testimony she did describe him as crazy and creepy. And yes, Rachel Jeantel did say he used the exact phrase "creepy-ass cracker" too. She also didn't think it was offensive and used the term jokingly to describe several people.
Personally I think, as a white Cisgender man, we need to get of our high horse. Even the white lower class has higher income rates than the black lower class. And the black middle-class has several times less than the white middle-class.
Then topping of with a racial slur insinuating that you're essentially white trash? Yeah, if you can't deal with being several times richer than the minority population you got yourself an identity problem.
Also, I think "creepy-ass" would probably be pejorative enough. Unless you're describing some creepy-ass dude who actually starts to chase. Which he did. Following that with 'cracker' sounds pretty harmful.
And, still, I don't think either being racist or calling someone cracker (or the N-word, for that matter) is something that should get you killed. -
The_Mob_Has_Spoken — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 11:46 AM)
So blacks being racist and attacking, robbing, raping, and murdering whites and others is okay because they make more money than blacks? Do I understand you correctly? Uncuck thyself, goof.
"I like simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth." - Floyd Gondolli -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 08:33 AM)
Uh, no. You're reading into much into what I said. If being called "cracker" really sets you of you must be suffering from really low self-esteem or have an identity crisis.
Hell, the term even originates from 1783 and Benjamin Franklin used the word in his memoirs: "a race of runnagates and crackers, equally wild and savage as the Indian". At this point in time whites still owned slaves too. So, yeah, you take a stab at what word is most loaded. -
The_Mob_Has_Spoken — 9 years ago(October 13, 2016 08:07 PM)
He had no criminal record
False. Trayvon had a juvenile record. And while that record is sealed and we may never know what was in it, my educated guess is that it was lil ghetto thug stuff like burglary, theft, assault, and drug crimes and that it was lengthy.
and on the night in question he was carrying skittles and a fruit juice beverage.
Sweet innocent wittle Trayvon. Saint Skittles. Please give it a rest. You might be foolish enough to believe the nonsense you are saying, but nobody else is.
"I like simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth." - Floyd Gondolli -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 02:03 AM)
False. Trayvon had a juvenile record. And while that record is sealed and we may never know what was in it, my educated guess is that it was lil ghetto thug stuff like burglary, theft, assault, and drug crimes and that it was lengthy.
Say, what? Yeah, I know you're accusing the media of lying and what not. But they explicitly wrote that he had no criminal record. However he was on suspension for marijuana. But, yet again, no charges filed.
Sweet innocent wittle Trayvon. Saint Skittles. Please give it a rest. You might be foolish enough to believe the nonsense you are saying, but nobody else is.
According to your own judicial system everyone is innocent until proven guilty. So, yeah, I'll think I keep at it. -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 08:35 AM)
What was proven? Trayvon Martin was never on trial. George Zimmerman was charged and tried for second-degree murder. Just because Zimmerman was acquitted doesn't mean Trayvon Martin deserved to die. But I guess it helps you sleep at night to view the world in black and white?
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The_Mob_Has_Spoken — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 05:32 PM)
What was proven: George Zimmerman's innocence, Trayvon Martin's guilt of aggravated assault and battery with intent to create bodily harm and possibly even attempted murder. No wiseguy Trayvon was not on trial because they don't prosecute dead people, but the truth of that night certainly did emerge from the proceedings.
"I like simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth." - Floyd Gondolli -
Freddy_Boy — 9 years ago(October 21, 2016 05:33 AM)
Please, tell me how you can not prosecute dead people and still declare that they're guilty of a crime?
It's also interesting that no less than three times did Zimmerman refuse hospital treatment for his aggravating injuries. Yes, yes, I'm fully aware that actually sustaining injuries isn't even needed for the self-defense plea.
Also: Even Zimmerman himself acknowledged that he tried to confront Martin upon which he started running. Now, if you have a Skittles and a Fruit Juice and are being followed by a man potentially (and he was) carrying a gun. For all intents and purpose Martin might have believed that Zimmerman posed a public threat. Just like Zimmerman though of Martin. Bottom line: It wasn't exactly an unprovoked, out of the blue totally unrelated assault which "some" make it out to be. The same right-wing pundits that's trying to make a case that victims of mass shootings should have ganged up on the shooter.
Also worth noting is that we've since the trial seen Zimmerman retweet images of Martin's dead body, essentially bragging about his deed and also tried to auction of the gun he used as a piece of American history. And these despicable actions comes from the guy whose words the court trusted when he said Martin subsequently attacked him. -
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assumedkilla — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 12:32 PM)
To focus on what actually happens on the show, what happened to the kid - getting roughed up because the police was frustrated and because a cop died is easily possible and has most certainly happened. You're choosing to think that kid was supposed to represent Trayvon. If he was supposed to represent Trayvon I doubt they would've chosen a black cop to do it. Also, people in hoodies stereotyped, particularly black people, as being bad or criminals has been around for around even before the Trayvon Martin case. Just like someone having a bunch of tattoos, it's a stereotype that they're rough. The show isn't anti-media at all, it is anti-corruption; hence the corrupts cops and corrupt politician. The one reporter character wasn't playing ball with Mariah.
As far as Method Man rapping, most black people (and decent people of any race) see Martin as a victim, since it's a fact he was a kid who was walking home and being followed by a grown man who had a gun. Zimmerman shouldn't have been following/hunting him, that wasn't his job. If it was his job then he probably would've gotten some training and knew how to fight rather than starting a fight, getting beat up by a teenager, then having to shoot his way out of a fight. Anyone defending Zimmeran is a POS. The guy showed no remorse, went on tour like he was a celeb, visited the factory where they made the gun, and beats his girl, SMH.
I never saved anything for the swim back. -
The_Mob_Has_Spoken — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 12:52 PM)
most black people (and decent people of any race) see Martin as a victim, since it's a fact
he was a kid who was walking home and being followed by a grown man who had a gun.
It is at least as much a fact that George Zimmerman was viciously attacked by a drugged up tattooed burglary suspect.
"I like simple pleasures like butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth." - Floyd Gondolli -
assumedkilla — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 01:00 PM)
It is at least as much a fact that George Zimmerman was viciously attacked by a drugged up tattooed burglary suspect.
There was a fight and Zimmerman started losing it. If he had never followed/stalked Martin the two never would've interacted and they'd both be fine, rather than one of them dead and the other person hated. Going by what you've said in this thread and on this forum seems like someone who is bright enough to like Futurama wouldn't be so hateful and small-minded, but I guess not.
I never saved anything for the swim back.