WHO is mom?
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centrd — 9 years ago(October 31, 2016 11:47 PM)
It's true, they've deviated from the source material but to take Lilith, mother of demons and Maze's very own mother, and make her Lucifer's mom instead would just be weird. Also weird that God and Adam would have the same wife. I mean really weird.
"Beauty chains me to the earthThe heavens are not a place for human souls." -
LithMaethor — 9 years ago(October 31, 2016 11:54 PM)
I don't think they're going for the mother-of-demons angle with her. Maze made a comment at some point that she was born in hell, heavily implying she's full demon. Unlike her comic version.
You're suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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BasementKat — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 07:11 AM)
Who is mom, deep down, and what does she really want?
To answer that, I think we also need to ask: Who is Dad and what does he really want? Here is my guess, based on what has been revealed so far:
Eons ago, Mom and Dad had a falling out. Dads creation of humanity seems to have been the final straw, but I think it probably started when Mom started paying more attention to the kids than she did to him. Dad got jealous, and started being demanding with the kids, and difficult to please. He even threatened to get rid of the some of the kids. Mom didnt know what to do, so she tried paying less attention to the kids, in order to placate Dad. But that didnt work. At some point, Dad decided to create humans, who would adore and worship him, the way Mom adored the kids. But that didnt work either. Also, at some point, Lucifer got kicked out. Some of the kids sided with Dad, because they were afraid of him and wanted to please him. They got angry with Mom, because they needed to get angry with someone and they were afraid to get angry with Dad. Mom was angry at Dad, and did some things Dad didnt like. Dad used that as a reason to have the kids throw Mom out. Mom went to stay with Lucifer. But Lucifer was angry because Mom didnt stand up to Dad on his behalf. So they remained estranged.
Mom would like for things to be like they were in the beginning, when she was with all her children, and Dad seemed to be OK with that. Mom has no use for humanity, since that was Dads creation, not hers.
Dad wants to be with Mom, but on his own terms. He wants her to lavish her attention on him, not the kids. He doesnt care about the kids nearly as much as she does, which is why he doesnt communicate with them.
Surely they did not introduce the goddess of all creation just so we could see her lead the life of a typical mother, so what do you think will be her storyline?
OK then gazing once more into my crystal ball, here is what I see:
I looks to me like they are setting things up for Mom and Maze to come to respect one another, and eventually become friends. At first it will be a begrudging respect. Mom begins to appreciate that Maze knows more than she does about how to handle things in the human world, and that Maze is doing her best to protect Lucifer. Maze appreciates the fact that Mom is willing to return to Hell, if it is necessary to protect Lucifer. They both care deeply about Lucifer, and they will overcome their differences in order to protect him. As time passes, Mom and Maze will develop a seemingly unlikely friendship. As that happens, things with Mom will get more interesting, and hopefully make more sense.
Is Mom dangerous? Uriel thought so. But as Lucifer realized, Uriel was insane. Uriel was ready to destroy both Mom and Chloe, just because he didnt like the way things were going for him. He presumed to know what his Dad needs, regardless of what Dad wants. He foresaw that Dad would forgive Mom, so that is probably true. He foresaw that Mom would then destroy Dad. But what does that mean, though? What does it mean to destroy someone with whom you have no communication, who gives no evidence of their existence? I think the destruction Uriel foresaw was that of his own opportunity to effectively rule in Heaven. Without Mom, Dad is losing more and more interest in his creations, which would leave a kind of power vaccuum that Uriel could have exploited.
Thats make take on things, anyway thus far. -
kurt-2000 — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 10:09 AM)
Mom has no use for humanity
No, because the writers started her out as a fallen god who thinks humans are inferior, so the pattern here is that she'll come to respect humans.
I looks to me like they are setting things up for Mom and Maze to come to respect one another, and eventually become friends.
Exactly. That's the writing pattern. People who were enemies become friends. This is a show about bonding.
As that happens, things with Mom will get more interesting, and hopefully make more sense.
Bingo. You've got it. -
centrd — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 10:25 AM)
I think it's a pretty good take. The only thing I don't agree with is Uriel's desire to rule Heaven. I think he truly believed he was protecting Dad so that He could continue to rule, but because Uriel was unstable, he lost all perspective.
My big question is, how did he get so unstable to begin with? Sure he felt left out as a kid, but that's not reason enough to go nuts. What on earth was going on with him that would make him lose it like that? Maybe his gift of seeing patterns was too much for him? Too much responsibility? Almost like God's omniscience? Maybe he couldn't handle continuously watching the things that were coming that he didn't like? He did say he'd like to be surprised just once. Maybe he knew that something really bad was coming if someone doesn't intervene? And it clearly has something to do with Mom if he was willing to wipe her out of existence, not just send her back to Hell where God put her. Maybe what he tried to whisper to Lucifer, with his dying breath, really did have something to do with his concern that God's downfall is inevitable unless someone stops it. If God falls, most likely Heaven will fall as well. In the comic, when God left the universe, everything started to collapse, because God's own spark was at the center of every atom. With him gone, nothing would continue to exist. It would have resulted in the end of all creation if Lucifer hadn't found a way to use Michael's demiurgic power to stop that from happening.
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in Cohen -
BasementKat — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 01:58 PM)
My big question is, how did he get so unstable to begin with? Sure he felt left out as a kid, but that's not reason enough to go nuts. What on earth was going on with him that would make him lose it like that?
I think it was not so much what on earth was going on as it was what wasnt going on in Heaven. Uriel seemed to have had an especially strong need to belong. He desperately wanted to feel like part of a family, but he was feeling more and more left out as first Mom left, then Dad stopped communicating. His siblings ignored him. He was left feeling completely alone, and I think his intense feeling of loneliness finally drove him insane.
Maybe his gift of seeing patterns was too much for him? Maybe he couldn't handle continuously watching the things that were coming that he didn't like?
That could have been a contributing factor. He was watching all these troubling things unfolding, and felt he had no one to talk to about it. He came to feel that it was up to him to fix all the problems and put everything right, since it seemed to him that no one else cared.
One thing that seems evident, the fact that one of the angels has gone insane is a bad sign about the situation in Heaven. -
readerf61 — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 02:07 PM)
Isn't seeing patterns part of the autistic spectrum? I'm not trying to actually go there butwhat's the saying, "as above, so below." If we can have children on different spectrums of normal, would that also occur in angels?
Really, this is is just a crazy thought; I'm not attached to it.
No, David. No one is happy in a poodle skirt and a sweater set.
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centrd — 9 years ago(October 26, 2016 02:49 PM)
Yeah, but there are still hordes of angels up there. He's not alone. It's been referenced more than once on the show and even in this episode where Amenadiel says Uriel was just one of many in the middle. The Silver City is nothing if not angels everywhere, all Uriel's brothers. They're the most important residents other than God, who's always MIA.
Amenadiel: Pathetic, small Uriel. Not the eldest son. Not the young rebel. But an angel buried somewhere deep in the middle. Lost in the crowd of your betters.
Of course, Amenadiel was trying to intimidate him there. I doubt everyone treated him that way.
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in Cohen -
barrelofmonkey — 9 years ago(November 01, 2016 09:33 AM)
My big question is, how did he get so unstable to begin with? Sure he felt left out as a kid, but that's not reason enough to go nuts. What on earth was going on with him that would make him lose it like that?
In the comic, it seems like all the angels go a bit crazy in the absence of the Presence. Some lash out, but most fall into apathy.
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centrd — 9 years ago(November 01, 2016 10:21 AM)
SUCH a good point! It's true, since a piece of God (divinity) is in each angel, when he is absent, they feel it as a severe lack which results in a kind of powerless bereavement that doesn't diminish, rather it continues to grow into a kind of insanity.
All of them so far have been suffering from God's absence. Lucifer the most (and yet perhaps he has handled it the best), because he was literally discarded (or so he believes) over a simple difference of opinion. But we can clearly see it in Amenadiel's terrible choices and now Uriel's even worse ones. All of this extreme behavior in an attempt to please God and connect with him somehow, to feel his love/presence in their lives.
Great
observation.
"Beauty chains me to the earthThe heavens are not a place for human souls." -
centrd — 9 years ago(November 01, 2016 01:18 PM)
Interesting comment by Mom, especially with facial expressions added:
Amenadiel: None of this would have happened if I still had my
Mom: Your powers.
Amenadiel: How did you know?
Mom: A mother knows. But I also know it's possible to regain your strength. That we both can.
"Beauty chains me to the earthThe heavens are not a place for human souls." -
centrd — 9 years ago(November 01, 2016 04:04 PM)
Nice, succinct way to put it.
And as a woman once scorned myself, I can relate to where she's coming from. Although, personally, I believe in letting karma take its course, not taking up arms. lol.
"Beauty chains me to the earthThe heavens are not a place for human souls." -
centrd — 9 years ago(November 01, 2016 04:08 PM)
Also, it's extremely common for the kids to get caught in the middle when parents are divorcing. There's lots of anger on all sides and it takes a truly big person to not want your kids to take your side, especially if the other side isn't playing by the same rules. It's messed up, for sure, but I'd be super surprised if Mom doesn't give in to those very common urges to want her kids to take her side, while at the same time saying things like "your father would be proud of you if he were here". It's very difficult to navigate.
"Beauty chains me to the earthThe heavens are not a place for human souls."
