Why is mind control so unbelievable?
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haxemon — 9 years ago(October 13, 2016 03:24 PM)
I think you missed the point. It's not that mind control itself is so impossible to believe (though given that the general public doesn't really have all the details the stuff you mentioned I think mind control is a bit of another step).
The issue is that it's so hard to prove specific cases. Jessica was trying to prove that Kilgrave made Hope kill her parents without being anywhere near them at the time. Hours after he was in contact with her in fact. So while people might accept that mind control is possible in some way, the idea that a girl would shoot her parents is a bit of a stretch to just say "oh yeah, mind control. makes sense."
It's even discussed on Trish Talk I believe where they wonder if criminals everywhere won't just start saying "Kilgrave made me do it". Jessica has to listen to all the people that showed up at Jeri's office to determine who was real and who was just claiming they were mind controlled.
Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late) -
dmcreif — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 06:07 AM)
The issue is that it's so hard to prove specific cases. Jessica was trying to prove that Kilgrave made Hope kill her parents without being anywhere near them at the time. Hours after he was in contact with her in fact. So while people might accept that mind control is possible in some way, the idea that a girl would shoot her parents is a bit of a stretch to just say "oh yeah, mind control. makes sense."
When Mariah does that speech at Harlem's Paradise in
Luke Cage
, she mentions Kilgrave's death but describes it in a way that seems to imply that even in death, people probably still don't believe that someone like Kilgrave could exist. -
haxemon — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 06:30 AM)
Great point though given it's Mariah that could be her spin on it and not necessarily common perception. But clearly it's not just widely accepted at this point.
Really, Jessica was never able to prove anything about Kilgrave to any more than a handful of people. And many are still in denial anyway. I don't think she ever actually got anything on film that would hold up.
Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late) -
dmcreif — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 08:54 AM)
Great point though given it's Mariah that could be her spin on it and not necessarily common perception. But clearly it's not just widely accepted at this point.
Actually I just realized there's another reason why New York City's public wouldn't widely accept Kilgrave's powers as being possible, even though
The Avengers
showed Loki using powers similar to Kilgrave's to control people. But on the DVD commentary, Joss Whedon said that in post-production, when it came to characters Loki had used the staff on, they digitally recolored their eyes blue to indicate to the audience when a character was being controlled and when they weren't.
Loki's mind control through the staff is a much different sort of mind control from the kind that Kilgrave practices. How? Because Kilgrave's mind control doesn't do anything visible to his victims. It'd be no wonder that people have trouble believing someone when they claim to have been controlled.
On top of that, you have to remember that Loki waltzed into a secure SHIELD facility and turned some of its top officials into his personal flying monkeys. That strikes me as the sort of thing that SHIELD would deliberately cover up. So even lacking obvious mind-control side effects, no one had revealed the existence of the previous mind-control incident in the first place. As a result, Kilgrave lives within a general public that has no knowledge of the whole thing with SHIELD and "that big brown dude with the magic staff" (that's how the Incident Blu-Rays street vendor at the start of
Luke Cage
would probably describe Loki), and thus people are skeptical about the idea of Kilgrave using mind control. -
haxemon — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 09:01 AM)
SHIELD would deliberately keep classified
This. I think it's safe to assume that most of what we as viewers know about the MCU isn't known by the regular citizens of the MCU. Either because it's literally covered up or just only known by a few characters.
Similar with Coulson's "death". I really don't see why any CNN coverage of The Incident would include talk of Coulson. I mean, it could if SHIELD wanted to somehow set Coulson up as a hero and promote SHIELD etc, but outside of SHIELD actively pushing for that I don't see how the world would know who Coulson is, let alone that he's supposedly dead.
"that big brown dude with the magic staff"
brown?
Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late) -
dmcreif — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 09:16 AM)
This. I think it's safe to assume that most of what we as viewers know about the MCU isn't known by the regular citizens of the MCU. Either because it's literally covered up or just only known by a few characters.
I use that same argument on other things like, "Why is Foggy so disapproving of Matt Murdock being a vigilante?" -
haxemon — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 09:45 AM)
Yup.
At some point (unless the time or reality gems sort of moot the point) the MCU will need to transition to where heroes, aliens, inhumans etc. are somewhat common knowledge. But for now they're still pretty much rumors and folklore.
Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late) -
dmcreif — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 08:40 AM)
The issue is that it's so hard to prove specific cases. Jessica was trying to prove that Kilgrave made Hope kill her parents without being anywhere near them at the time. Hours after he was in contact with her in fact. So while people might accept that mind control is possible in some way, the idea that a girl would shoot her parents is a bit of a stretch to just say "oh yeah, mind control. makes sense."
It's even discussed on Trish Talk I believe where they wonder if criminals everywhere won't just start saying "Kilgrave made me do it". Jessica has to listen to all the people that showed up at Jeri's office to determine who was real and who was just claiming they were mind controlled.
That even explains "Why wasn't SHIELD looking into Kilgrave?" Anyone could claim "Oh, some British guy forced me to shoot my parents to death in an elevator". -
Phantom_Panther — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 04:03 AM)
People believe in all that stuff because they've seen proof of it with their own eyes. The issue with mind control is that it's much harder to prove in court (where it mattered) without Killgrave and his parents.
It's also said that after the attack in New York, everyone and their mom was blaming stuff on mind control. They even bring up multiple cases such as a mom who tried to blame mind control for her daughter getting pregnant, and a man who blamed mind control for him robbing a gas station (they were both lying). Basically, there's enough credence to write off anyone blaming mind control as crying wolf.
You also have to consider that this was before the inhuman crisis as well, so the Avengers were the only known meta humans at the time so having a random mind control jedi mind trick guy was even more of a surprise. Honestly, I felt like they handled the idea of a dude with mind control let loose in the 'real' world fairly well. I mean how WOULD you convince a court that you murdered someone under mind control? It would be impossible to prove without admission from the guy himself.