When is Amenadiel going to learn?
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readerf61 — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 10:55 AM)
I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. To me, and this is based strictly on the show, Lucifer resigned from his job in Hell and came to earth for a holiday. God rejected his resignation, but too bad, Luci is gone. So, god tells Amen to get Luci back or he has to take over hell. Thus far, Lucifer has done nothing that I would call evil or bad. There's no commandment that says, "Thou must stay in a job that sucks." So, too bad for everyone else.
Amenadiel, on the other hand, used his divine power to bring a dirty cop back to life, turns a blind eye to the fact that his action causes the death of a human (Malcolm's old partnerthe fall guy for the Palmetto problem) and actually requests the murder of his brother. I'm pretty sure that breaks a commandment, or maybe a few. He slept with a demon. And most recently, he lied to said demon when he said, oh, yeah, definitely cool with a little break when one could see that Maze's coolness was tearing him up inside.
So, the OP suggests that Amenadiel is having a fall from grace. For his actions, which have been far from divine.
And, this is where I'm confused, it seems you disagree? Or maybe I'm not understanding the point you are trying to make. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 11:27 AM)
You and me both. The poster claims that Lucifer has caused "cataclysmic events" that Amenadiel had to correct thereby justifying his despicable deeds. First of all, what "cataclysmic events"? The ONLY thing that has happened since Lucifer left Hell is his mother got out, and that is all on Amenadiel. If Amenadiel hadn't resurrected Malcolm, he wouldn't have been mortally injured and/or weakened enough to leave the gates of Hell unattended.
Also, I highly doubt God even sent Amenadiel to get Lucifer back to Hell. At best it was probably the heavenly host, at worst, Amenadiel because he didn't want the job. You can see how shocked Amenadiel was when Lucifer said he'd heard from "Dad". Dad doesn't talk to these guys. Even in his supposed instructions to Lucifer to bring Mom back, he doesn't actually say anything. It's all Lucifer's interpretation of what God wants. That could be another reason for Amenadiel's fall, not just his bad deeds but his presumption of what God wants for Lucifer.
I had the idea that the worlds so full of pain it must sometimes make a kind of singing. R. Hass -
JonasArm — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 02:58 PM)
The original statement is just about Amenadial intervening to tell Chloe that it's all an act I stated that he had reasons to do so because the knowledge of the supernatural affects more than just Chloe and Lucifer.
I did not qualify neither Lucifer's actions nor those of Amenadial either positively or negatively. I never said Lucy is evil and Amen is good. I said that Lucy's actions often come with consequences that he may not always care about and that based on that, it's understandable that Amen decides to intervene for such a secret being exposed could be particularly shaking. -
readerf61 — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 03:43 PM)
I have to say that was clear, and I really was confused.
I think Lucifer actually wanted Amenadiel to get involved. I don't think the statement about at least getting him out of his depression, or whatever, was just snark. I think he was actually a bit worried about his brother, and how he was handling all the eventsfalling for a demon, mum escaping, and the demonMazedisappearing. Still, I don't think he expected the little show and tell Amenadiel had with Chloe.
But other than the concern for his brother, and knowing this would get him upset and involved, I don't think Lucifer really cared if Chloe tested his blood. On one hand, dangerous, on the other, it would finally prove his point, that he is the devil. He's not terribly great at risk assessment at times. -
jncarriere — 9 years ago(September 20, 2016 02:44 AM)
Amenadiel's interference not only caused death,but also wreaked havoc for everyone involved. Trixie could have died from his so called "good intentions" and he has shown to be as much if not more petulant and selfish then Lucifer. If that wasn't enough he is also arrogant,but I still like him.
Also lets leave the bible out of it.
imperfection is an altogether attainable human goal, and love is acceptance of imperfections. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 20, 2016 03:42 AM)
Yeah, I like him a lot too. I just want to shake some sense into him. Same way I want to shake some sense into Luci, sometimes.
It especially bummed me out how his pride prevented him from connecting with Maze when he clearly wanted to and I think she was hoping he would. I think she could offer him some guidance too. Sure he was feeling rejected and covered that up with a cavalier attitude, but if he could be honest, he wouldn't have blown his chance with her so completely. But I don't hold him responsible for this, he's only learning to deal with feelings. He's just being a big lug and I want to whack him upside the head sometimes.
Besides, their split provides romantic tension which is always better in a story than actual romance.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 28, 2016 11:13 AM)
Excellent point. And interesting, because all the angels think they're so superior to humans, and yet, other than their strength and powers, they're just as fallible as the rest of us. And they're all proud, not just Lucifer.
Lucifer actually seems to be a bit more interested in how humans think than his brethren, and is more sensitive to their feelings. You can see lots of examples of it. Like when he tells Linda that in his experience, women don't like when men punch holes through things. After having sent her flowers and chocolates to apologize. There are actually lots of examples of him figuring out how humans work and acting accordingly, right along with all the ones where he doesn't. Like when he offers the grieving boyfriend "another song". lolthat's the clueless Lucifer we can't help but love.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh -
samhaincat-50015 — 9 years ago(September 28, 2016 10:21 AM)
Sadly I think its all part of the learning curve and let's face it both Lucifer and Amenadiel are a bit damaged by the actions of their parents.
Added note: Lucifer spilled the beans in season 1 about his mortality and Amenadeil immediately took advantage of it. So why did Luci again spill the beans with the blood sample to Amenadiel? Lucifer trusts his brother and Amenadiel uses that trust against him-although Lucifer didn't seem upset this time. Luci also needs to learn not to give trust unless it is earned. Granted Amenadiel did save Lucifer in Season 1 after his own bad action really sank in. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 28, 2016 11:06 AM)
This is very true, neither one of them have come out of that family entirely unscathed or emotionally stable.
Lucifer doesn't lie. And our TV Lucifer has no filter. But it's crazy that he'd tell Amenadiel, considering how sneaky the dude was, right up until two days ago!
If this Lucifer is anything like the comic Lucifer, then he knows exactly what he's doing, and he's actually setting Amenadiel up. But that's hard to say, seems the writers go back and forth with TV Lucifer, sometimes making him incredibly naive, and other times, quite cunning. His childlike qualities make him highly entertaining, but I do hope, as the series continues, that we get to see more of Lucifer's cunning and a little less of his blundering. The real (comic) Lucifer doesn't blunder. He's too smart.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh -
samhaincat-50015 — 9 years ago(September 28, 2016 11:29 AM)
ITA in many ways he's like an innocent child - sometimes just not thinking it through. I also agree that he should be more cunning especially with the bad guys (one of my fav moments -epi 7 I think was with the auction guy when he growled "they are mine' he was quite menancing but I love the vulnerably emotionally scarred version as well - he still has a ways to go and that makes it so entertaining.
Just saw the new promo for next week - looks like something is seriously wrong with Amenadiel's wings - maybe he'll be too busy with his own humanity to interfere further with Luci's. -
centrd — 9 years ago(September 28, 2016 01:28 PM)
Great point about the wings. I noticed them but then forgot, but that's probably why Amenadiel's so upset in that scene. And yes, one would hope he learns to stay out of Lucifer's business, but I'm guessing he won't; he just doesn't seem to easily understand that the consequences he experiences are a result of his own actions.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. Vincent Van Gogh