Alan Moore bitching
-
Hazzer_99 — 17 years ago(April 08, 2009 02:06 AM)
Dude, literally, dont be ridiculous. I was asking him to explain it. I looked up foil and didn't see the contrast description. I simply do not understand the connection between the boring arsed story of the Black Freighter which I would groan at having to read when it came about, and the main awesome Watchmen story. I am here looking for people to explain it. And by God all beep mighty, all I get is stuck up pompous head-up-their-own-ass wankers who just
incessantly
go on and on and
on
about how the connection is obvious, how I should see it, blah blah beep blah. Yet not a single person actually sets it out straight, not a single person can actually put into words the single most connection.
My understanding of the world of foil is off?! No beep Sherlock! So rather than telling me I should know more about Alan Moore (why the beep should I know about the author to appreciate the story anyway? what a dumb thing to say!), why not actually lay out the
foil
of the two stories?
Because you know what?! I think it is lame. I think at best, the connection is that of desperation. Desperation to saved ones loved ones, to go to any lengths. And the havoc that ensues. Thats all I see, and its frankly not strong enough to warrant the praise some die-hard fans attribute to it.
So rather than jumping on this infuriating bandwagon of pathetic jibing that always accompanies anybody even insinuating that they dont agree with or follow the nationally accepted norm, how about you take the time (it shouldnt take you half as long to write as this did me) and lay out four or five basic comparisons between The Black Freighter and Watchmen. Just bullet points, is all. From there I imagine (if they truly are legitimate) I can figure out the rest.
Thank you. I promise that if they are legitimate points and see the light, I will come straight back here an apologise.
Go to the loo, 'cause all the beep's coming out your mouth instead of your a-hole -
infinajt — 16 years ago(April 09, 2009 12:02 PM)
But it's been explained ad nauseam over here, on this very same board. There's a funny title called "How 'Tales of the Black Freighter' parallels Watchmen" on the first page of the forum - kinda strange how you could miss that.
But you just can't really start explaining the importance of stories-within-stories by just using Watchmen as an example, the roots go so much deeper. The use of it here is not "genius", I don't know why anyone would say that, but it adds yet one more layer to the story and that is why it should be celebrated. Plus I personally think it is one sick m-fcking story. -
Hazzer_99 — 16 years ago(April 09, 2009 05:39 PM)
Well I've got to admit I find it a lot easier to digest what you are saying when not laying into me for being the Anti-Christ, so thanks for that. Just another layer that further enhances the story makes a lot more sense to me.
Go to the loo, 'cause all the beep's coming out your mouth instead of your a-hole -
symphonyofdestruction — 17 years ago(April 03, 2009 04:19 AM)
The News Stand vendor and "Tales from the Black Freighter" were my favourite segments of the book. I think it had alot of relevance to the overall story, and while reading it I thought it was all pretty obvious, but it has been a while since reading, so I won't be able to tell you how. But there were some VERY obvious connections to the stories with which it interwined.
-
MasterMegid — 17 years ago(April 04, 2009 05:48 PM)
Alan Moore is raised to almost god like status by many Watchmen readers. I see him more as a deeply troubled, bitter man who relects his own distaste for mankind in the comics he writes. Im getting really tired of heariing about what a genius this guy is. Id rather give credit to Dave Gibbons for giving us iconic images.
Im really glad Zynder released this seperate from Watchmen as i do consider them very detached from each other.
You are not very smart are you? Firstly you judge someone, that you know little about.
Then, you assume, just because his work is dark and stranage he must be also.
And finnaly, it paralles the Watchmen story in many ways. Look it up on Wikipedia. That is if you can even grasp it.
Reality is which, when you stop believing in it, doesnt go away.-Philip K. Dick- -
ramalama3 — 17 years ago(April 07, 2009 10:24 PM)
Well, I agree with the OP in that I did not care much for the BF parts, and I did "get it" when I read it. Honestly, though it works in some places, it is just laborious to read in others. The whole time I would think, "I get it; it's a parallel to the story. Do something with it!" I guess it was mildly more interesting by the end when everything tied together more thoroughly, but it didn't make it much better for me. To me, it really bogged down the pacing of the overall story. It was worth reading the first time, but when I reread Watchmen I tend to skim the BF parts.
-
angelic_poet2006 — 16 years ago(April 12, 2009 02:04 PM)
Black Freighter and The Watchmen are both linked. Black Freighter just serves to highlight the plot of Watchmen. If you analyze the character in BF, you would see that his journey from the island to Davidstown (or Jonestown, not too sure, haven't read in a while :D), CHANGED him, but he was driven by something POSITIVE, something he thought would help his family and those he loved. In the end, he had to accept that he only brought about evil in his self and exuded that on the innocent. In the end, his fate was inevitable. Much like Watchmen, the last written words of Dr. Manhattan summed it up. You can't avoid the inevitable, and undeniably, the world that Veidt tried so hard to make better and "Save", will return to its former state. So in a sense, Black Freighter serves not to contrast, but to depict in a different light and sense, the inevitable.
No one man or event can influence 'permanent' change. There must be a change in the way we think, and frankly, in the world of Watchmen, the only thing the nations changed in the end, was their target.
"I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me." - Rorschach -
jakuhn — 16 years ago(July 15, 2009 12:51 PM)
i hear ya a part of me always felt like he was "dumbing it down"
i too "got it" early on. and at first, i felt like "it was cool" but with the exception of some of the parallel imagery and how they used the author of the black freighter as one of the artists on the squid, i felt like i didn't need it to be broken down that much.
almost as if the author was saying "you probably won't get what i'm going for here, so i'm gonna simplify it for you"
i did enjoy all the intricacies between the three narratives in the book. it was definitely well thought out and provided a lot of depth
i would also enjoy seeing how this is knit together in the ultimate edition release.
we'll see which one i buy or if i just buy TOTBF when it price drops before the ultimate edition release and allow my own imagination to piece it together -
shoobe01 — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 05:41 PM)
I know it's been years since your comment, but this. Reading the comic originally, I very clearly thought it was great, reasonable to have that alternative viewpoint, get to the man on the street, allegory of pirates but get on with it. The Black Freighter bits dragged, and even some of the streetside conversations at the newsstand did also.
Also agree, pacing. I had to be rather deliberate and not skim them to miss anything or change the intent. The first time. -
HiddenVoice — 16 years ago(June 01, 2009 10:50 PM)
Why don't you shut it. You're a fanboy of his book, his material, it came out of his mind, so he has every right to bitch about it. Stop taking somebody else's work for granted and bad mouth the person who gave you that great work. God, the movie wasn't even a decent work, it coulda been worse, but it still wasn't good.
-
gottfrid — 16 years ago(July 24, 2009 10:09 AM)
Well, I disagree with the original poster.
I love the "plots within the plot" of watchmen.
its part of its charm, and partially it is what separates watchmen from inferior comic book efforts like "The dark knight", and "300", that are still pretty good, but not as good as.
There is one thing I agree with the OP, though: Alan Morre is being a bitch, and hes got a big ego.
All this "I hate Hollywood" thing, and "I hate they are adapting my stories thing" and "Im no ordinary writer, I follow the cult of an ancient serpent of the romans created 3000 years ago" is very well defined by the OP: being a bitch.