Is Attuma really that much stronger than Thor?
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Norrin_Radd_Of_Zenn_La — 12 years ago(October 03, 2013 02:44 PM)
For the MCU Thor has been severely de-powered in order to be relatable and interesting, what ever THAT means.
As awe-inspiring as Thor Odinson SHOULD be he has been brought down to JUST above WWE levels.
Tis a shame too.
Under new management! -
EmperorGalvatron — 12 years ago(October 03, 2013 11:53 PM)
By relatable and interesting I assume they are kinda talking about the same criticism that plagues Superman: that some people feel he is too powerful and there is no drama in a character that cannot really be hurt. I suppose there may be a point in there, yet they seem to have no trouble showing the Hulk as crazy strong. MCU seems to be contradicting themselves.
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Norrin_Radd_Of_Zenn_La — 12 years ago(October 04, 2013 07:24 AM)
By relatable and interesting I assume they are kinda talking about the same criticism that plagues Superman: that some people feel he is too powerful and there is no drama in a character that cannot really be hurt.
For me that statement holds NO relevancy because Superman was created as a "Wish-Fulfillment' character and once he morphed into popularity the writers were stuck.
Thor is quite different and I need only point you to Marvel's creation of an all-powerful character with an insane amount of relate-ability. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created, directly and indirectly, a Christ-like character that was incredibly vulnerable, complex but possessed the power cosmic which was an INSANE amount of power to be tapped into.
One of the reasons that I gravitated more towards Marvel instead of DC was because of the Silver Surfer's constant angst and pain. Marvel's characters have always had issues and problems that connected them to our world and brought you into the characters existence because of their inherent vulnerabilities. As a kid I liked Thor. Constantly torn between Asgard and Earth for all of the rights reasons. CONSTANTLY being stripped of half his powers by an All-Father.
Nah, that whole relate-ability and relevancy of the audience towards the God of Thunder is for me just "code words" for the writers being unimaginative and treating the current audience as children. Thor has a mission, a reason for being based in equal parts of mythology and Marvel story-telling. Thor's popularity in Europe transcended Marvel's USA box office for Thor's live action film and this animated version does him a huge disservice.
Thor gets sacrificed JUST to allow the Hulk to have a niche. Otherwise Thor would indeed dominate every frame of a film or comic panel. The Hulk is shown as crazy strong because his fans want him that way. If not for that then the Hulk would be the Thing. Thor gets saddled with knowing that inside the raging brute exists a man and it is Thor who has to pull his punches, try to reach a soul within and then get's pimped slapped as a running joke for doing so.
I say thee NAY!!
Yes the MCU does contradict itself due to the fact that fans,
younger fans, media buying fans, action figure buying fans, Saturday morning cartoon buying fans
demand their Hulk be served to them with a pound of Thor ego as a side-order.
Thor is an ages-old warrior of many battles and should Norse kick the snot out of The Hulk and Attuma who literally were JUST born yesterday.
Sorry for that rant!!
Under new management! -
EmperorGalvatron — 12 years ago(October 04, 2013 11:32 PM)
I've begun to become a fan of Thor thanks to EMH and the movies. I've known about the character for years, yet didn't really have a sense of anything about him til then. I really like the concept of him being involved with Earth and Asgard and other mystical realms and even outer space. There is a lot you can do with the guy.
However his depiction in this series is really off. He does not seem like a noble warrior prince, but more like some wrestler guy who likes to fight and have fun. Travis Willingham has an OK voice for him, but the way he's handled is bad. I think Rick Wasserman sounded the way I assumed he actually would. -
hoboboxerjoe — 12 years ago(December 09, 2013 01:11 AM)
WRONG
A Brief History and Defense of the Hulk
(Written "freehand" with very little editing)
-By Joe "The Boxing Cannabyte" Epicurus
"The Hulk is shown as crazy strong because his fans want him that way. If not for that then the Hulk would be the Thing."
It has been established for
decades
that Hulk is a creature of infinite strength. What makes him interesting is not only his many incarnations (Grey Hulk being my favorite, precisely because he started off as no stronger than the thing, but as he got madder, he got stronger, but it was a slower process, his healing factor was also really shown off during the early PAD days)
PAK new
exactly
how to handle a creature as powerful as the Hulk who no longer had the disadvantage of being outright stupid and childlike. Which is getting really old, seeing that in live action. I say "De-power" the Hulk and make him Gray, give him the Joe Fixit personality and then turn him "Gravage" (which to us Hulk-ites is the Joe Fixit personality, combined with the savage's rage and body, with the ability to tap into Banner's intellect as-needed.
Not only has PAD, PAK and Jason Aaron given us some of the best Hulk stories ever using this other the mid-80s-now-Ignoring the horrific Bruce Jones run and the run that decided we'd have thousands of HUlk personalities running around in Banner'smind and that the Professor Hulk is just another one of those, thus retconning the merging that Doc Samson did. Professor Hulk would be my second choice, he put a trigger in himself to where if he gets too enraged (especially after seeing just how dangerous the Maestro could be, who is a threat that can and has taken down the mightiest heroes, and is the type of villain that could take on the likes of Superman and the JLA at once due to his insane levels of strength, something like 2x as strong as the strongest of the Hulks, with the ever-increasing rage)
"The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets" has been a mantra of the Hulk's for 40 years, dude.
He is
not anything
like the Thing unless "strong big guy" is your point of comparison.
Hulk
is
stronger than Thor, which shouldn't be that big of a deal, Thor is the better fighter, they are both very dynamic in their own ways, their own strengths and weaknesses. To say that us fans of the Hulk influenced how the Hulk's strength is portrayed is ridiculous for not only the reasons I stated above, but a major one on your side: You have no evidence of this, because there isn't any. You are simply projecting your own ideas and anger that Thor isn't stronger than Hulk onto the character, the writers, and the fans, with no real basis for doing so. To compare him to the Thing shows how little you know of their history. The Thing has a very poor track record against the Hulk, possibly worse than Wolverine's (Who was a Hulk villain, to start, btw)
So, I take issue with your nonsense that you are spouting for the sake of some kind Thor fanboyism that completly clouds your judgment to every canonical battle Thor and Hulk have EVER had. Hulk
at his strongest and most dangerous
has destroyed Thor when Thor was stupid enough to try and strongarm the strongest creature on Earth and one of the strongest creatures in the entire MU. Hulk has beaten The Thing, even Pineapple Thing (The only Thing that stood a chance against any of the Hulks) while Hulk was poisoned with something that was WEAKENING him and wearing down his heart, this was Gray Hulk to boot. Hulk still won.
Joss Whedon who most certainly knows these characters, who has written these characters as a comic writer, and knows their histories, portrays the Hulk as stronger for good reason. It's the Hulk's thing, it's his powerset, it's part of his personality. It's what defines him. Thor is a warrior, a god, one who went through hell and back to become worthy of Mjolnir. He has a rich, complex history. Like Canan the Barbarian (the book and recent comic versions) he is a man who can almost be an anti-hero (like the Hulk) at times. One who, in spite of his overbearing arrogance, can come off as wise, compassionate, thoughtful, and even fairly intelligent. Which isn't really his schtick.
Hulk has the same level of complexity, hell, you through in the MPD disorder, child abuse, the motivations behind the "Big Two" Hulk personalities, Fixit and Savage, and their merging into Professor (with Banner), or their seperation from Banner and thus becoming the Hulk known today, and arguably the most appreciated Hulk and likely the one that would be best recieved by a worldwide audience in hsi own film if Marvel and Disney ever has the balls to get creative with anyone besides the "silent savage" Hulk which is an even more dumbed-down version of the Savage in the first place-You look at that history, you look at his fears of becoming the Maestro (who became very much like his hated father), and you have a character who's history and personality is in the top echelon of the most well-developed, complex and rich character -
goosh69 — 12 years ago(October 22, 2013 03:05 PM)
"By relatable and interesting I assume they are kinda talking about the same criticism that plagues Superman: that some people feel he is too powerful and there is no drama in a character that cannot really be hurt. I suppose there may be a point in there, yet they seem to have no trouble showing the Hulk as crazy strong. MCU seems to be contradicting themselves."
Ugghh. Hulk can lift the entire billion ton island of Manhattan by himself.
Defender of the weak, and enemy of the weak minded. -
Walter_Skinner — 12 years ago(October 24, 2013 09:16 AM)
Superman being overpowered is a burden he faces from being such a powerful character. Silver Surfer, Flash, Thanos, and tons of characters in both Marvel and DC are stronger than Superman. He hasn't been around for 75 years by being overpowered.
Hannibal 2013 -
Skaathar — 12 years ago(November 29, 2013 03:06 AM)
Attuma in water lifts max of 60 tons. Outside water he can only lift 40 tons. Both Thor and Hulk lift over 100 tons.
Honestly, Thor never gets the respect he deserves outside of his own comics. Everytime he has to share screentime with someone else he is gimped. In the cartoons especially (not just this but Ultimate Avengers, Hulk vs., and EMH) Thor is shown as some kind of dimwitted brawler instead of being the best warrior of Asgard in a thousand years, who's had centuries and centuries of fight experience. -
EmperorGalvatron — 12 years ago(November 29, 2013 11:18 PM)
I don't remember him seeming dimwitted in EMH, but in this series he seems to be. I haven't seen Hulk Vs. and it's been a long time since I've seen Ultimate Avengers, but I don't remember him doing much of anything in those movies. Like I said, I don't really care if they wanted to make Attuma stronger in this series cuz they thought he would be a good match for Hulk, but why was Thor getting his butt handed to him?
I understand Thor supposedly holds back a lot, yet he often times seems weak and unnecessary. I did like the part in "Avengers: Impossible" were he through the hammer to Attuma to have him catch it and he then preceded to crash through the tower. That was a smart thing to do instead of just relying on brute strength. -
dsnjager — 12 years ago(December 01, 2013 11:53 AM)
No he is not nearly as strong but depowering Thor is just something they do to make it interesting or else it would be all over in 5 minutes, like they did with superman(sometimes you see him having trouble lifting a building and sometimes no trouble lifting an Island)
oh and PS when Hulk became more and more popular during the years they also made him really overpowered and stupid and thus not interesting enough to make him a hit on the big screen (maybe they lurned a lesson and thats why they have depowered Thor now, who knows exactly)..:) -
EmperorGalvatron — 12 years ago(December 03, 2013 12:04 AM)
I wonder if enough fan complaint would make them power Thor up again? In the first season of Justice League Superman seemed quite weak and got taken out by things that shouldn't have hurt him. Thankfully in season two and onward that problem was corrected. I understood the reasoning behind it was that they didn't want Supe to always be the one to save the day when it was an ensemble, but they made him a wimp at first.