A really bad show….
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lokithemadtitan — 17 years ago(July 18, 2008 05:08 PM)
yes. this show was pretty horrible all together and it had nothing to do with batman. i could care less about him being in any episodes. the writing was ridiculously putrid. laughable even in some episodes. i watched it when it was on the air and i wish i had not. the acting ranged from ok to terrible. they could not even do the stunt work correctly so you can add poor directing to the list as well. it was a pretty embarrassing outing over all and deserved to be canceled. if it had come out this year it would not have made it past four eps before it would be canned. avoid at all costs unless you are a super hardcore fan.
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TesubCalle — 17 years ago(July 28, 2008 02:22 AM)
I commented on a different thread that as it is with any show, there are good episodes, middling episodes, and really bad episodes. Birds was no exception.
I have to disagree with the poster who thought they should have cast a different actress for Harley. I really liked Mia Sara as the villain in BoP. There was this dangeous relationship with Helena that I wish the writers had had time to develop. At each 'session', there was always that danger that Helena's secret could be revealed, thereby throwing everything into chaos.
(Sort of SPOILER-ish comments to follow. Do not read ahead if you have not seen the show and do not wish to have anything spoiled:)
Imagine, the hidden enemy you're trying to bring down is right under your nose, and you're in therapy with her every week or so? If I didn't already have serious trust issues after finding out about Harley's criminal mastermind/psychopathic plans, I'd really need some professional help if I were Helena.
I did not think that the 'love interest' angle was dropped on us in Det. Jesse Reese's case. Neither Helena nor Jesse were interested in a relationship in the beginning. They were pretty standoff-ish with each other, sometimes even bordering on hostility. Did we figure out that there was some underlying attraction going on? Of course we did. It's TV. Hot male meets hot female? We know how to connect these dots. Episodes like 'Prey for the Hunter' were especially good in highlighting that Helena really finds it difficult to trust people, and is not about to jump into a relationship with just any guy she meets.
Wade Brixton, on the other hand, was just too good to be true. He was too caring, too nice, too sweet - you just had to guess he was cannon fodder. In spite of how unbelievably sweet he was, it was great to be able to show that Barbara was capable of having a meaningful relationship in spite of being in a wheelchair. It speaks more to a societal view of physical handicaps, in my opinion. Just because she can't use her legs doesn't mean she's not worthy of the love and attention of a nice guy like Wade. (But in the long run, we all know that Barbara Gordon and Dick Grayson belong together, so I didn't feel all that terrible when Harley killed him.)
I think everyone can at least agree that Dina Meyer was perfectly cast as Barbara, though. She brought an incredible amount of believability to the complexities of the character. Meyer had to really inhabit the mind, body and soul of the ex-Batgirl, now the paralysed Oracle, mentoring and keeping the Birds together as a functioning unit, and I think she was successful. She also had to pretend to be this mild-mannered English teacher who ran an on-line baking company for the sake of keeping up appearances for Wade. If they ever have need of an Oracle character in the Batman movies, my vote would go to Meyer.
Good episodes, in my opinion, would be: the Unaired Pilot (has a few scenes that make small things a little more credible than the actual Pilot), Slick, Sins of the Mother (had some really great dialogue!), Lady Shiva, Nature of the Beast, and Devil's Eyes.
Middling episodes: Prey for the Hunter, Three Birds and a Baby, Primal Scream, Split, Feat of Clay.
Bad episodes: Gladiatrix (perhaps the WORST episode of the entire series) and Reunion (which makes use of some creative timelinesUm, when, exactly did Helena graduate again!? And how old are those ex-classmates of hers?!).
Was BoP 'terrible'? I don't think so. Was it fantastic? Ehhh, not really. But it had enough entertaining moments that I'll watch it again. Sure, it could have been better. But that's the way TV goes.
Down with spoilers! -
fuzzyblueslurpee — 17 years ago(July 28, 2008 12:15 PM)
I agree with 99% of your post. The only thing I disagree with of course is about Mia Sara as Harley Quinn. I don't think she did an awful job and actually did a great crazy woman. For some reason she didn't seem like Harley Quinn to me though. I think Mia Sara is an awesome actress and is still stunningly beautiful. For me it was just an odd casting choice. But I will say that she did really awesome in the final episode.
Ultimately this show is taken as a whole from it's first season since it wasn't given any more. Every tv show is kinda awkward and can be choppy in it's first season while the actors and plots work out the kinks. So yeah, the show wasn't top of the line but, it wasn't awful. The point I was trying to make previously is that the writers didn't seem to know what they were doing. I think the fact that so many people look down on BoP can be blamed on them. It was just so monotonous and seemed like a huge chunk of dialogue was just written in to fill time. Luckily, they had a really strong story to draw from with alot of followers being a Batman spin off. But I feel it could have been so so much more had more capable people been in charge of the writing. To me BoP had cult classic potential that was thrown away by lazy writers. That's my opinion.
I agree that Dina Meyer was pretty good as Oracle. She out of the whole cast never made it difficult to suspend disbelief that she was this high tech crime figher and caretaker. I think all the actors did great considering it was the first season. As I said before, there were some areas where lines sounded rehearsed but again, they were all barely beginning to settle into their parts. -
TesubCalle — 17 years ago(July 28, 2008 01:40 PM)
I agree with 99% of your post. The only thing I disagree with of course is about Mia Sara as Harley Quinn. I don't think she did an awful job and actually did a great crazy woman. For some reason she didn't seem like Harley Quinn to me though. I think Mia Sara is an awesome actress and is still stunningly beautiful. For me it was just an odd casting choice. But I will say that she did really awesome in the final episode.
Oh, yeah, Mia did do an incredible job as a 'crazy woman', as you put it. For me, though, I have no other context for Harley than what I've seen on BoP, Gotham Girls, and a few very minor references from comics sources. If Harley's supposed to be a crazy psychopath 'bitch', (as Helena calls her in Devil Eyes), then I think that pretty much makes Mia's casting choice a sound one. Makes me wonder, then, how different the series would have been had Sherilynn Fenn remained as Harley. Ah, well. Water well under the bridge at this point.
Down with spoilers! -
fuzzyblueslurpee — 17 years ago(July 28, 2008 03:05 PM)
Yeah, we'll never know. I'm in no way at all putting Mia Sara down because I adore her.
You should check into watching BTAS. It sounds like you might be someone who would enjoy it. There are some great episodes with Harley Quinn in there as well. Particularly Harley & Ivy from Season 2. -
TesubCalle — 17 years ago(July 28, 2008 11:56 PM)
I've seen a handful of B:TAS episodes, but none where I can recall specifically seeing Harley or Ivy.
I'm one of those weird people that read about TV shows, but rarely watch them, unless I have a really good reason to. (Might also have something to do with the fact that I refuse to pay for cable/satellite TV).
If I can catch a few on-line, I might do it. (and you didn't read that last sentence).
If I like it enough and it's available, I'll even buy it on DVD.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Down with spoilers! -
StarroHeart — 17 years ago(September 26, 2008 08:36 PM)
I thought the production was a bit poor. How many times did they use that same alley way/ street area throughout the series? And come on, it was very obvious that the set for New Gotham High was also the same set for the abandoned hospital. I thought that Dina as Oracle was great and thank God we didn't have to see that frilly, lacy, see-through cape mess that Huntress wore after that first episode.