What is she mixed with?
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marbleann — 15 years ago(January 11, 2011 09:27 PM)
Are you actually saying to me that it would of been preferable for a slave to remain a slave instead of gaining his freedom? I hope you are not. If one remains a slave there would be no chance of them to go further in life. If a slave is given freedom they would have a chance to go further. There were plenty of freed slaves that did very well. Funny the system of slavery created conditions that that made it impossible for a slave to learn anything. So if a person remained a slave they would never have a education. Nor a family. I cannot believe you really believe that. And I do not care what year or century we are talking about it is never better being enslaved no matter what opportunities that are available or not. With your logic black people would never go to college because what is the need to go to college if no colleges in the south accepted black people. Or why try to be a doctor, there were no med schools that accepted black people. Yes we should just remain uneducated and ignorant because at the time there were no opportunities. Well see the lack of opportunities creates opportunities. School were segregated and were not equal. So people rose up and made sure the law was changed to undo segregation. Law schools and Med schools did not accept black people so years ago people fought for them to do so and now they do. I cannot believe you feel because there were a lack of opportunities for free slaves it would be better for them to remain slaves. Crazy.
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knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(January 11, 2011 11:06 PM)
At that moment time yes. why are you judging the past, and it's not crazy, it's stupid to judge people for the way they believed and behaved in the past. Since you can't change it. i think all slavery is wrong, but they weren't going to free a bunch of people that for all intents and purposes would not have been able to make a living to support themselves.
Yes they were better off, to gradually be integrated into society, and the U.S. found this out years later when the great depression hit, most of the whites who were affected the hardest by the depression were poor uneducated, unemployed, illiterate and undesirable and it gave rise to bank robbers like Bonnie and Clyde, and John Dillinger the difference was they were allowed to have weapons, where black slaves were not.
Black slaves didn't own and were not allowed to own guns so they couldn't fight for their freedom and that is only way slaves become free, if a slave waits to be freed they'll die a slave, they couldn't read or write. Are YOU seriously telling me that they would have been better off just being set free all at once. that would have had disastrous effects for everyone. The slave owners didn't have the money to pay them, that's was the whole point in owning slaves. saving money on labor.
So if they were freed, and I'll ask you again since you failed to answer the question who was going to pay them to work?
After having them work for free. who was going to pay to educate them no one, they were slaves they didn't own anything so how was just setting them free going to do them any good?
The slaves who were freed in the south after the Civil War were had nowhere to go, and nothing to do except become sharecroppers working the same land they had as slaves, where they ended up giving most of the wages they earned back to their former slave owner, they also paid the former slave owner rent to stay in the homes they had lived in as slaves, they were basically still slaves, and they were still uneducated, and most lived in poverty with just the bare essentials to live. part of the problem with Black slaves is that they waited for someone to free them, and when they were "JUST FREED" after the Civil War as you claim they should have been all along, they still behaved like slaves, and it set up the conditions that didn't change until the race riots.
I'm sure there is nothing like being a free man with nowhere to go, and in essence not being free, I can remember seeing the bathrooms and water fountains in the south that had whites only, and that was in the late 50s and and early 60s. how much better would it have been for a bunch of uneducated, illiterate former slaves if they had just been set free into a world that didn't want them?
It's easy to spout out the rhetoric, but it's not logical, and history has proven that the freed slaves didn't know what to do with themselves.
People who just what change instantly are the most dangerous, they don't think things out long term or what the long term ramifications will be, they just make excuses afterwards as to why something didn't work, when they were told beforehand what the outcome would be.
You keep saying this stuff but you aren't answering my questions you keep spouting out what they should have done.
It's easier to just tell some one they should or could have done something, it's not so easy to have a logical viable solution without thinking it through first. Knee jerk reactions to a problem never work and always make things worse.
Most of these slaves weren't educated, again what were they going to do to SUPPORT THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES?
The conditions were what they were.
It still doesn't change the fact that there would still be a large percentage of the population who would have been uneducated, unemployed, and undesirable.
Again, your judging the past, by your way of thinking NOW. You can't do that people didn't think this way. and in the future there will be people like you who will judge the world by whatever standards they have in the future.
I live in city where marijuana is legal, 10 years ago this would have been something that was unacceptable. The law changed because people attitudes changed, and the only reason attitudes toward slavery changed was because societal ideas were starting to change.
If you were getting something for free right now, and someone stated, you now have to pay for it, would you still want to pay for it after getting it for free all this time. That's not human nature.
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Freedom means you are unobstructed in living your life as you choose. Anything less is a form of slavery. - Wayne Dyer
They could have just freed them, but as Mr. Dyer's quote clearly demonstrates the slaves freed after the Civil War were obstructed and were still slaves for all intents and purposes, yes they were free, but they had no money to leave or go anywhere else. Someone lik -
marbleann — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 08:00 AM)
There is no justification for keeping anyone in slavery. You can quote a million people and write a thousand lines. And nothing you will say will ever justify keeping a person in bondage simply because the lack of opportunities. I never heard of anything so outrageous. Tell me when is there ever a plethora of opportunities for a slave? Remember most of the history of slavery were written by white folks. Of course it was self serving to This was not like in Roman times the slave got money and a chance to own property. There is nothing more then I can say other then you must of been looking at too many Gone With the Wind type movies. Because no person would ever believe something like that unless they condoned people being treated like animals. You act like the slaves were treated nice. And l16d0ived under good conditions.
With your logic during the first half of the 20th Century abused women should of never left their hubby's because there was a lack of opportunities, society frowned upon that and she had no where to go in most cases. And today a lot of abused women have no place to but they leave with their children even if it is a shelter. Or abused women do not believe they are abused because they are so use to bad treatment they think it is ok. Sort of like the attitude many slaves had.
Or let's keep the Jews in the concentration camp because if they were let go there would be no homes or jobs to go back to And if you think being a slave is not as bad as being a a abused wife of in a concentration camp doing forced labor you really have a skewed vision of slavery. The fact is they were not getting paid anyway and they lived in atrocious conditions. So at least free them so they could at least try to find opportunities and indeed they did. There is no justification for your position. -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 08:39 AM)
Again you're judging people who are dead, and believed differently than YOU, it's history and it's over, but people like yourself are more condemned to repeat these mistakes because you're not looking at it as HISTORY, YOU"RE judging by your beliefs NOW!
The bible itself clearly states it's alright to take slaves, I'm an atheist, but people during Jefferson's time, before his time and after he was long dead took things in the bible literally, and they BELIEVED it was the right thing to do at that time because the bible stated the taking of slaves was justified.
History is meant to be learned from not judged.
The 15th century Portuguese exploration of the African coast is commonly regarded as the harbinger of European colonialism. In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas, granting Afonso V of Portugal the right to reduce any "Saracens, pagans and any other unbelievers" to hereditary slavery which legitimized slave trade under Catholic beliefs of that time.
Source: Allard, Paul (1912). "Slavery and Christianity". Catholic Encyclopedia. XIV. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm.
I'm black and I'm an atheist which means I'm an unbeliever, and for those two reason I would have been a considered someone who could legitimately become slave back "THEN", times have changed as have people's attitudes, but even in "THIS TIME" they're are still people who believe and carry out crimes in the name of religion.
Which is what these Christians were doing when they decided that slavery was a legitimate business. Mr. Jefferson was a deist.
Honestly you sound angry over something that has been long dead buried and over with for over a century.
"I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past." - Thomas Jefferson
"We are not makers of history. We are made by history." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again. - Maya Angelou -
marbleann — 15 years ago(January 11, 2011 09:08 AM)
Knight I agree completely. My question is if she is mixed what is Rosie Grier, the football player? Also I noticed publicist always want to push the mixed ethnic thing so white audiences will find black people more palatable to watch. See because white folks cannot get into their heads that a person can just be a black person if they are pretty, smart and rich. Some reason they feel if we are any of those things we have to have white blood in us. They are responsible for it. Notice they never ask about black people who look Asian. What I feel is hypocritical, if you you do something white folks do not like you are just a nggr. Look at Malcolm X and Ice T. No one is trying to hijack them into the white race. See because those two have espoused opinions that are controversial. Ice T writing Cop Killer permanently bared him from getting a invite to the white race. Vanessa Williams is all of a sudden mixed but when she was Miss America and they caught her making those nude pictures she was just another nggr. But she was able to rehabilitate herself from that fiasco by becoming a successful singer and actress so she all of a sudden has a invitation to the white race. Look at Tisha Campbell, certainly light then Pam Grier or most black people. But because she doesn't have the typical white features of long hair and thin lips, no one is calling her mixed. Barack Obama has turned into a black man from a mixed man ever since those crazy Republicans have been on his case from the day he took office. Now he is a black devil with ties to Muslims.
Another thing I want to add is in the 60's when Pam Grier was making all of those sexy movies and white folks would put blaxipolitan flicks down. THose movies were the laughing stock of Hollywood, nobody was talking about her being mixed. Now because of that moron Quentin Tarantino she is respectable. But before she was just a black woman who took her clothes off in movies. Since a white man Quentin approves of her she is ok.
One last thing to the person or persons who talked about that slave holder pedophile Tommy Jefferson having a love relationship with a slave. Listen she was his subordinate and she was a child. She was sent to Paris to be a companion for his small daughter. The fact that she was part white and was very light did not keep him from keeping her a slave. He mother was a slave who was raped by a ship captain. The only reason she returned to the US, because she would of been free if she stayed in France is because Tommy promised her and the child she was carrying freedom. Something that never came to after his death. This was not a love relationship. He did not even free his slaves as he promised he would do with their children. The fact is we do not even know if they had all of those children because he never acknowledged them. Yeah sounds like a stand up guy to me. If he was not the President of the US and if her family did not try so hard to get recognized as Jefferson's(which they are still fighting) he would of been just another slave master taking advantage of one of his slaves. You think somehow because he was a President he was any different then the other slave masters? Do you think most of them were not having multiple children with one of their slaves? They had concubines. Oh and why didn't he give her freedom? Did he set their children up comfortable somewhere up north away from the clutches of slavery? No. He did not even give them the freedom he promised them. Because he wanted to keep her a subordinate. It had nothing to do with love. He was a monster. And I am ashamed to say he was the President of this country and you should be too. Some of you folks have this sick fantasy about black women in slavery having consensual sex with their slave master. You all need to get some help now. Do you think a 45 year old female teacher fooling around with a 15 year old student is a love relationship? People go to jail for that. So why do you think a 13 year old SLAVE is going to have a love relationship with her master? -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(January 11, 2011 10:20 AM)
I had mentioned Thomas Jefferson because the actor Robin Givens had claimed and even played character that was suppose to be a descendant of Thomas Jefferson, several years ago their were DNA test done to try and verify the actual descendants, ti's is list in county records that some of the mixed race children Thomas Jefferson fathered looked white, and it is true he did not free any of his slaves until he died, which was usually what happened in the north, when a slave owner died, I believe Samuel Adams did the same with his slaves when he died.
You are right about those blaxploitation films, the only ones who made any real money off of them were the studios that made them, and they were seen as laughable by Hollywood, but then again so were "B" movies made by whites actors in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s and to some extent still are except they're called straight to video.
I'm not ashamed that Thomas Jefferson was a President he was actually very foresighted, and I don't judge history by today's morals or standards, it was legal to have a young girl as a wife back then, one the the suitors sent to be a possible husband for Queen Elizabeth I was only 10 or 11 year old boy, but he was heir to one of the thrones in Europe.
Older men were usually the ones who were established and they usually married young girls who had reached puberty to give them heirs, and you also had young teenage boys and girls who also wed, and usually stayed with their parents. In most cases this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.
It seen as necessary since the culture was an agrarian society and most people lived and worked on farms having a large family to work it was required so as soon as boy or girl were of marrying age they were encouraged to marry, and the same was held for slaves, a young child baring teenage girl could give the slave owner young potential slaves or slaves to be sold or traded.
You can't judge history or people for things that were socially and legally acceptable. It was legal for a girl to marry at 12, 13 and 14 and well into the early part of the 20th century most the laws didn't start to change until the 1920s when most states changed the age of consent to 18. You also have to remember people didn't live that long, it was almost unheard of for someone to live to be in their late 70s, 80s and 90s, and 40 and 50 were considered to be old. So people started early and died young by today's standards.
Well I've always maintained that blacks that are more acceptable looking by whites in the entertainment industry do much better. I like Halle Berry but I think there are more talented actors that are considered to be black than Ms. Berry but they aren't going to get as much work as she gets, and since she gets a lot of work it allowed her to showcase her talent and win an Oscar, but if more black actors were given the opportunity to do those roles I believe they would be just as good if not better and receive the same accolades.
There was a black reporter who did a series about this very subject, Alicia Keyes, Nia Long, and some other female entertainers were interviewed and Ms. Long's stated it was hard for women in general because they only have a short time to establish themselves before they were perceived to be old, and it was even harder for black female actors, experience and perception in the entertainment business was very different from Ms. Keyes he asked Ms. Keyes if looking the way she looked helped her get more acceptance universally and she stated yes, she's very talented but like the reporter stated would she be as acceptable if she were darker skinned? He even held up pictures of successful black female entertainers and most of them were what whites perceived as beautiful.
I wish i could remember the series because it was online earlier last year and it was very informative and revealing. It was aired shown on PBS.
I also found it interesting when he asked a white director and producer what type of films sale better and he stated people always like love stories, and when asked which sold better when it came to inter-racial relationships he stated a white male attractive lead, and a black light skinned attractive female stories always do far better than a black attractive male and and attractive white female, and he stated that is just the way it is in Hollywood, and this producer /director was born and raised in another country and became a citizen in the U.S. but even he stated he had always seen differences in how Hollywood perceives it can make money and with whom they can make money.
Movies will make you famous; Television will make you rich; But theatre will make you good. -
leroyol — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 02:29 PM)
Just saw the repliesmy appologies, didn't mean to word it like that knight_sentinel. I just got a little frustrated but its cool, I read your retort and I agree with the part where you made the comparison to Tyra Banks and Beyonce and how "people" try to do that.
Im cool with it for some reason (I guess because she isn't saying she's mixed with 1/3 Irish, 1/8 Scotish, and all that other BS like some black celebs do LOL. I can understand honoring your heritage, but when people say"Im not black" (Im speaking to you Kid Cudi lol) it pisses me off too.
AnywhoI know where your coming from tho
"I have a lot of energy. I'm a lot stronger than most people." -Rutger Hauer -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 04:40 PM)
I just find it weird that they need to be mixed to be attractive universally or at least look mixed.
When Jennifer Beals first came on the scene back big time in the 80's with the film "Flashdance" after she mentioned she was mixed, most of the films she did after "Flashdance" were barely registered on the map. I thought she would have been a bigger star.
A few decades later Jennifer Beals does "The L Word" and being mixed race is marketable, if you look at her board this topic is discussed on several threads.
From her being bi-racial, to not playing the black half, to being a lesbian to people still asking if she's really bi-racial which she has actually stated in interviews in the past, I remember her talking about it during the "Flashdance" craze, but it's almost as if it hurt her career by telling people she was mixed back in the 80s, Although part of that was probably because she went back to school to finish getting her degree and graduating from college.
This is a link to one of the post on Jennifer Beals' board.
Topic: Jennifer Beals is a glimpse of the future?
http://www.imdb.com/board/20000884/board/nest/145306372?p=1
She's considered to be universally beautiful because she's mixed, and from what the poster is asking is she the future of what beautiful people will look like because she's mixed.
I just think Jennifer Beals is attractive as well as some of the other women I had mentioned and I don't think all of them are mixed at least not visibly, and even if she hadn't stated she was bi-racial she was very attractive to me in "Flashdance", and she was in great shape.
Another example is the film "Dreamgirls" was suppose to be Beyonce's film, and Jennifer Hudson stole that film and I think Ms. Hudson is a very attractive woman even more so than I do Beyonce who is also attractive, but I think Jennifer Hudson is a beautiful woman. IMO, but she doesn't get the attention that Beyonce does.
Although since she's lost weight, Ms. Hudson seems to be a bit more confident about herself so that may change, maybe.
The late Barbara McNair once stated
"Lenny Bruce used to say about me that I was a Caucasian, that someone took a paintbrush and painted me brown. White people are not aware that Negroes look all kinds of different ways."
Which is why this question always gets asked on this site.
Her reply to Lenny Bruce's remark is one of the best ones I've seen by someone who has been asked this question.
Ms. McNair wasn't mixed to best of knowledge, she was light skinned she was an actor and singer and Co-authored a book entitled "The Complete Book of Beauty for the Black Woman". Ms. McNair doesn't have any pictures on IMDb, she's not as well known as Pam Grier.
http://www.barbaramcnair.com/barbarasstyles.htm
Movies will make you famous; Television will make you rich; But theatre will make you good. -
Tresix — 15 years ago(February 27, 2011 08:59 AM)
Lenny Bruce's remark about McNair's background reminds me of Archie's line about Harry Belafonte in the Sammy Davis, Jr. episode of "All In the Family": Archie wants the family to guess which famous black person was in his cab and as a hint says "Bongo, bongo, bongo." to signify that it's a black man. "Belafonte?" Mike guesses. "Get outta here!" Archie says, "Harvey [sic] Belafonte ain't a black guy. He's just a good-lookin' white guy dipped in caramel."
Yippee: "For king!"
Yappee: "For country!"
Yahooie: "And, most of all, for 10 an hour!" -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(February 28, 2011 01:13 AM)
That's a good line. I think when Will Smith was in "Ali" he used that line on Michael Michelle's character in that film or he may have said dipped in honey. Ms. Michele is mixed raced, and her skin does look like she was dipped in caramel or honey.
I don't think a lot of people know that at one time in certain states in the U.S. if a person had one drop of Negro, Native American Indian, Mexican etc. they were considered to be colored, it was the start of the eugenics laws that started in Virginia. The eugenic and miscegenation laws were s1c84etup as colored, whatever they called people who were mentally impaired and white, and that "One Drop" designated a person being called one of the races that was categorized as colored, and the other covered people who were mentally impaired, they also include criminals in those laws as people to be sterilized. The belief was to keep the white race pure, and eventually the other races would, as well as the mentally impaired would eventually die off.
It's was an interesting law, because at that time most of the people having children with those other races were white men. There was a book just recently written by an author who researched the relationships between blacks and whites and he states his research found that there were many blacks and whites who were having relationships together before these laws were penned inked and passed mainly in the southern states by the very same men who were dipping their pens in a variety of colors.
The "One Drop" rule and Racial Integrity Act of 1924 were absurd because at that time blood typing was still in it's infancy the first two major blood groups had only been identified in the early 1900's.
Movies will make you famous; Television will make you rich; But theatre will make you good. -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(March 10, 2011 06:22 AM)
Find a verifiable source, I can say anything I want about being anything, Merle Oberon use to say a lot about her parentage, which was all a lie. It was fabrication on the studio's part and hers.
I'm ann idiot I haven't seen one piece of verifiable proof to prove where she's stated this, except where users have put down this information in variuos places, I haven't seen a legitimate news source, and whose to say she's telling the truth..
Robin Givens and her mother use to say a lot of things about Ms. Givens background, these were all prove false. FACTS! get some fool.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Movies will make you famous; Television will make you rich; But theatre will make you good. -
deed54 — 15 years ago(March 26, 2011 06:44 PM)
does anyone read the bio s on here? this is a quote from her's :
√but I'm a mix of several races: Hispanic, Chinese, Filipino. My dad was black, and my mom was Cheyenne Indian. So you look at things beyond just race, or even religion: I was raised Catholic, baptized a Methodist, and almost married a Muslim. -
knight_sentinel — 15 years ago(March 27, 2011 07:00 AM)
That quote was put there by a user, if you look up her actual quotes that is not one that is attributed to her, I looked, which I posted in a previous post, there are a couple of sites that have quotes from her and can be traced back to the sources where she stated them.
Yes I read the bios, but I double check information in the bios, because anyone can edit a bio on IMDb, and they're suppose to put the source of the quote e.g. the magazine, newspaper, television or radio interview. Like some people will put up a quote and also list that the person stated it in a format like this example [Source: People Magazine, and the date.]
Honestly the only time I'm asked if I'm mixed is by people who are white, i never been asked that by another black person, if you have certain features or are light complexioned you must be mixed with something in order for them to perceive you as being attractive.
I left the link of her quotes in a previous post to the poster who stated the same thing as you have they never got back to me because it's not there or the other site.
Both sites, that quote is not on either one, I could see it not being one site, but to not be on two sites
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pam_grier.html
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/pam_grier/
When she was asked about Martin Luther King she stated the following: That's what he was saying, the civil rights movement - judge me for my character, not how black my skin is, not how yellow my skin is, how short I am, how tall or fat or thin; It's by my character. - Pam Grier
She has other quotes about race, but that is not one where can find where she stated it in an interview.
"My people were homesteading in Colorado before Emancipation." ~ Pam Grier
Ms. Grier's family is not from Colorado they moved here when she was a young girl, so the only people she could be talking about would be Blacks. Colorado, Dakota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Washington fought on the Union side. Several slave-holding Native American tribes supported the Confederacy, most Native American Indians were sent to reservations.
You have to look at the context of a quote, and what was being asked and how they responded.
Movies will make you famous; Television will make you rich; But theatre will make you good. -
Duchess89 — 14 years ago(July 18, 2011 04:20 PM)
Don't you think that that might be down to her being black? I mean how many white actresses do you know that look as good as her without the plastic surgery?
Naomi Campbell 41
Jennifer Beals 46
Halle Berry 40?
Mary J blige 38+
Missy Elliot 38?
Aisha Tyler 38?
Iman 58
Gladys Knight 60+
Beverly Johnson 60+
Grace Jones 60 +
Angela Basset 40 +the list goes on, all these women are either black or have black ancestry. For once can't people just give black women credit where its due? Its not like there blind or that they don't have eyes and they can't see that black people in general tend to age better.
I mean if you genuinely wanted to inquire what other ancestry she may have I get it, but don't post questions on here asking why this 5b4obviously black actress seems to be ageing so well there must be another race responsible for that-it can't possible be due to her being black, its as bad as the posters on here asking why a black actress is so beautiful followed by 'what's she mixed with?'
'I went hungry, not to fit into a dress but because I was a refugee,' - model Alek Wek -
Helen_Kay — 13 years ago(August 28, 2012 08:22 PM)
Funny that you mention primarily MIXED women, some of whom are a lot more white than black!
Why are you spouting off your racist agenda, "girlwith"?"Is our children learning"? -Sep 12 2000
"Childrens do learn" -Sep 26 2007- GW Bush