It seems that I hear this idea perpetuated quite frequently these days, whether it's coming from Jenna Jameson or the re
-
PhillyV49 — 11 years ago(September 26, 2014 11:07 PM)
One thing I'd like to make clear before I finish this discussion is that I in no way believe that porn stars are immoral for doing what they do. I'm confident that Jenna Jameson, Sasha Grey, Belle Knox, and all other porn stars are good and decent human beings in general. However, that doesn't change the fact that that when it comes to justifying what they do for a living, they don't seem to be thinking rationally at all.
-
quarrion-1 — 11 years ago(September 27, 2014 12:33 AM)
However, that doesn't change the fact that that when it comes to justifying what they do for a living, they don't seem to be thinking rationally at all.
I still don't know what you mean. How do they justify their work and why is the justification not rational?
A justification (if any is needed then) doesn't have to be true to be rational. Their values and decision making processes can be so different from yours that the justification would appear wanton to you and "just cool" to them.
They may even err on the reasons they chose this job and could still be rational. So I wonder what you mean with that. -
PhillyV49 — 11 years ago(September 27, 2014 02:41 PM)
The fact that they ignore the obvious and pretend that what they do for a living is something to be respected or admired when the evidence points to the contrary. To ignore facts and to lie to yourself is to be irrational. The only difference between being a porn star and a prostitute is the presence of a camera.
-
quarrion-1 — 11 years ago(September 27, 2014 08:18 PM)
The fact that they ignore the obvious and pretend that what they do for a living is something to be respected or admired when the evidence points to the contrary.
I think you use a metric that simply does not exist. Respect in the most broad sense is measured by the remuneration you get for your skills and porn stars score high on by this standard.
Sure there are people who disrespect porn stars, quite a few possibly and they use some ancient "society does not " metric but they likely are not the group of people porn stars hand out with nor their clients. Porn fans, as fans of strippers usually have a reasonable amount of respect for the looks, skills, personality etc of their stars. So while there are lowly paid prudes who look down on porn stars, it is likely entirely irrelevant for their lives.
You have to approach this much like Muslims look down on us because of what we eat, drink, think, say but it doesn't affect or impress us much.
The only difference between being a porn star and a prostitute is the presence of a camera.
I am sorry but you are very, very wrong here. Legally and factually. You don't want to be irrational, do you? There are tons of other key differences: a porn star does not solicit sex, she knows her partner and that partner does NOT pay her. Any date-sex is closer to prostitution than porn is. -
PhillyV49 — 11 years ago(September 27, 2014 11:27 PM)
Those are trivial differences intended to take attention away from the elephant in the room: there is still financial compensation for having sex. It doesn't matter who is doing the paying. The dictionary definition of a prostitute is a person who engages in sexual intercourse for money. No mention is made of who is required to pay this person.
I've made myself as clear as I possibly can. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree. -
ManToothO — 11 years ago(September 28, 2014 05:02 AM)
PhillyV49, wow! I read your OP with interest. You phrased your words a bit "out there" and was contradictory in a few places (which many picked up)
but
I interpreted your desire to understand. However, with each consecutive post you just sound insincere, dense and hypocritical when many are trying to help and communicate with you.
As someone said to you on this thread; you clearly are not interested in understanding despite your claim. And then ending your thread with "agree to disagree" Sheesh! -
quarrion-1 — 11 years ago(September 29, 2014 05:34 AM)
Those are trivial differences intended to take attention away from the elephant in the room: there is still financial compensation for having sex.
If you ignore the technicalities then any woman married to a rich man, having a wealthy boyfriend, having a relationship with someone of influence is a prostitute.
More so than any porn star as the latter are paid for their performance whereas the former get awards immediately for being intimate with their suitor.
It doesn't matter who is doing the paying.
To you perhaps. It does very much to the law.
The dictionary definition of a prostitute is a person who engages in sexual intercourse for money.
Again, I have problem with that terse and naive definition, it simply renders 80% of all adult women prostitutes and hence turns the expression meaningless.
I am telling you why I do not agree with you: you try to engage in a false equivalence between traditional rigid language and colloquial terminology. And the falsehood is two-fold: the dictionary definition originates from a time where there was no porn and where marriages were for life, they did not have to worry about the subtleties of greedy women and starlets. The fact that you would exclude someone like Carmen Electra and Anna Nicole Smith from the ancient definition where they almost certainly belong but still insist that porn stars are prostitutes tells me that you are - possibly unintentionally - not honest with the contemporary perception of the term.
Second and more importantly: you would be much less wrong if you were European. A prostitute for them is simply a women who provides these sexual services as a job. Most folks do not further care. Whereas in America, prostitute is predominantly an invective or at least a slanderous term. People call people a prostitute if they want to insult them, not to describe what they do for a living.
You can easily the veracity of what I am saying by the fact that if you are once a prostitute you are always regarded as one. You cannot become a teacher, airlines won't hire you etc. The same is not true for most other unskilled professions.
So once more: the dictionary term originates from time immemorial where porn stars did not exist and prostitutes were more respected. The way you apply it is - at least from my perspective - disingenuous. -
Just_Jenna — 11 years ago(September 29, 2014 05:28 PM)
If you ignore the technicalities then any woman married to a rich man, having a wealthy boyfriend, having a relationship with someone of influence is a prostitute.
Exactly. In fact, but that deduction, most married women are whores. Perhaps we're getting to the root of the issue with this poster (whom I suspect is a sock account).
It's not so much that women in porn are whores, it's that ALL women are whores in his opinion.
www.jennamoquin.com -
jp3183 — 11 years ago(September 27, 2014 11:13 PM)
To ignore facts and to lie to yourself is to be irrational.
Ah, the foundation of religion. LOL!
Again, "(fortune, fame, fantasy, etc)" is the only evidence that matters to them. What you respect and admire is insignificant, as far as they're concerned. It's hilarious that you keep thinking that descriptions like "idiot", "pathetic", "irrational", etc would actually matter to women who get referred to (and treated) as a whore, slut, c_unt, skank, bitch, tramp, bimbo, hooker, twat, hole, f_uck toy, cum dumpster, prostitute, etc Once more, I give you their answer: yawn. -
Just_Jenna — 11 years ago(September 28, 2014 02:31 PM)
whether you are a man or a woman, if you get paid money to have sex, you are a whore.
I'm not arguing this, especially since the dictionary.com definition of whore is exactly that.
But, where is the line drawn between prostitution and using sex to sell yourself? I'm talking about TV stars, singers, and those celebrities who have very little talent but yet look really good (Carmen Electra, Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton).
In your opinion, are they whores as well? They're not having sex to make money (though could be sleeping with producers, etc. in order to get famous, that's another side of the debate), but they're using sex to make money. Would they also be whores?
Getting to the other side of the debate, what about women who sleep with powerful men in order to get ahead? This could be either actresses, or corporate women sleeping with CEOs to become CEOs themselves one day. Are they also whores in your opinion?
www.jennamoquin.com -
PhillyV49 — 11 years ago(September 28, 2014 05:28 PM)
I would say that having sexual intercourse, whether it's vaginal, anal, or oral, in exchange for any kind of material gain, makes you a prostitute/whore. It is not just limited to street hookers who seek out Johns.
Based on this rationale, Carmen Electra is certainly not a prostitute/whore because there is no sexual intercourse involved in what she does. However, Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton are more difficult to discuss because they both made sex tapes. If it is the case that they both made money off of these tapes, then I'm going to have to say that they are prostitutes/whores. If not, then they are simply two women who enjoy filming themselves having sex, which there is nothing wrong with. -
quarrion-1 — 11 years ago(September 29, 2014 05:36 AM)
f not, then they are simply two women who enjoy filming themselves having sex, which there is nothing wrong with.
I am lost now - then what is wrong with being paid to enjoy being filmed having sex???
How can you have a problem with one and not the latter??? -
Just_Jenna — 11 years ago(September 30, 2014 05:36 PM)
I am lost now - then what is wrong with being paid to enjoy being filmed having sex???
How can you have a problem with one and not the latter???
Good point!!
www.jennamoquin.com -
Just_Jenna — 11 years ago(September 29, 2014 05:30 PM)
So pretty much all women are whores, in your opinion. You could've just said that instead of doing this long drawn out post.
www.jennamoquin.com -
PhillyV49 — 11 years ago(September 29, 2014 06:19 PM)
I am very sorry that you all misunderstand me so badly and cannot follow my logic. It is not my fault. I do not believe that all women are whores. Absolutely not. I don't know how any of you can deduce that, but what the hell. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how false it is.
It's about sexual intercourse for money. Not all women do this, so no, not all women are whores. As a matter of fact, it reveals how negative your mentalities about women are when you assume that married women are whores simply because they are married to rich men. Why would you suggest that? Women are biologically programmed to look for men who can be providers. These women are merely following their programming.
I do not believe that all women are whores and I never would. I didn't start this thread to say that all women are whores, I started it to point out how some women, definitely, without a doubt, are prostitutes/whores (i.e. any woman who receives financial compensation for sexual intercourse - as a profession). Whether or not it is part of a profession is the only technicality that matters. Clear enough yet for your thick skulls? -
Just_Jenna — 11 years ago(September 30, 2014 05:43 PM)
It was this statement:
I would say that having sexual intercourse, whether it's vaginal, anal, or oral, in exchange for
any
kind of material gain, makes you a prostitute/whore.
A lot of women marry for money, or material gain. A lot of men marry so they can have regular sex. Also, in many relationships, when the man wants sex he'll buy a piece or jewelry or something to make the woman feel amorous. I'm not making this a black and white thing, just saying it does happen.
There is a lot of sex that occurs in this world where the woman is obtaining some sort of financial security or material gain from it.
Prostitutes are just up front about it, no facade there.
www.jennamoquin.com -
quarrion-1 — 11 years ago(October 01, 2014 06:28 AM)
I don't know how any of you can deduce that
Given how well you write, I find it very hard to believe that you missed the crucial errors pointed out in your thinking. You simply want to play innocent now after all these statements you have made. No good.
It's about sexual intercourse for money.
&
Women are biologically programmed to look for men who can be providers. These women are merely following their programming.
So they are programmed to be whores. If that is no bad then why are porn stars so bad?
I do not believe that all women are whores and I never would.
True. Virgins and 16 olds who screw loosers are not prostitutes by your book. Just the 80% other women.
(Any woman who receives financial compensation for sexual intercourse - as a profession). Whether or not it is part of a profession is the only technicality that matters.
That is NOT what your dictionary said. Why are you shifting the goal post NOW so late in the discussion.
Plus it's a moot excuse: housewife=profession. Housewife of a wealthy man = whore. Your argument not mine.
Clear enough yet for your thick skulls?
Very clear - just one more obfuscation attempt on your behalf to salvage a terminally lost argument and split the whores you like from the whores you want to insult.
Clear enough now?
And for the third time: please explain to us why the paid aspect is such a turn off to you!