I've seen 6-ish films by this fella and only 2 were good (because they were so bad), the rest were terrible and full of
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mdsmith101 — 21 years ago(August 05, 2004 12:10 PM)
why are we going over plot points anyway? I could mention Mario Bava's "Mask of Satan" where almost every camera shot in perfectly framed and that the whole film is carefully shot and photographed, due to the skill of Bava. How about Lamberto Bava on "Demons", brilliantly filmed with an interesting narrative and tight editing. Argento's "Suspiria", like "Mask of Satan" gorgeously shot, beautifully scored with great editing.
Use the above as a guide. Now I could mention Fulci's building of atmosphere, which is generally good. I wouldn't say they were well written, or edited. By starting this thread I was hoping that someone could convey the film-making skill that Fulci used; instead we're yakking about plot points.
And that Doctor in The Beyond with the gundoesn't make sense, but it's Italian. Sure, it lacks narrative sense, but it's only a horror movie.
You still haven't broken House by the Cemetary - let's leave the zombie/doctor aspect and the woman (Ania Pieroni?) who acts stranger than the usherette in Demons. Explain what was going on with the old woman and the young girl and why the young boy was so attracted to them.
Now, NerdofHorror, all I want is a summation maybe by you as to Fulci's technical film-making prowess. Don't just say he liked making movies, it doesn't cut mustard - get technical! In other words, movie making is about more than pointing a camera!
Oops! Forgot to mention Soavi's "Stage Fright", another well shot, edited and executed Italian film.
'If I wanted to listen to an a**hole - I'D FART!' -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 06:12 AM)
You're talking about plot holes, but you almost can't coft up any examples, but i'll answer your request on House by the Cemetery;
Like i said, the film puts it's focus upon how only children can understand and belive the fantastique. As you see in the film, Bob confronts his parents with supernatural experiences he's had, but they don't belive him. Antoher example to support this was in the scene where Bob talks to the girls even though he was far, far away from her. He could still hear her. Everything is possible in a childs world. They're thinking he's just a child. The old woman was Dr. Freudsteins wife, and the boy was so attracted to the little girl because she was simply his first friend at the new place. In the end, the children enters "the beyond". The little girl opens the gate for Bob to enter, and "saves" him from the normality of life. They continiue to live on in another world where adults holds no power.
I amazed that you didn't get the ending of The Beyond. You're the second one i've ever heard of that hasn't gotten it.
So the the technical part; Fulci's films is shot in cinemascope which gives a very atmospheric blend to the films. Supplied with the amazingly cinematography by maestro Sergio Salvati, Fulci pushed the limit of creepy moodsetting-gut-munching atmosphere to it's very limits. In fact, Fulci was quite a handyman himself when it came to the technique. He used a special technique on the cinemascope-camera where he cut the frame, which made the picture look much, much better, and also proved the facts that italians are brilliant on that level. I also loved the way he used seipa in the beginning of the beyond. Originally the scene was to be shot in black/white, but Salvati mixed this seipa together, and it worked perfectly (Fulci later used it for a scene in Conquest, but that was with green color). Very stylish and unique. He also uses a special kind of filmmaking-nervewrecking style where he zooms up on the eyes of the actors. Also worth mentioning is the camerawork in Conquest with the always special use og foggy creativity that describes the mystery and absurdity of the film.
The Beyond was shot in 2-perf Technoscope format with only half a frame to create a widescreen image. This technique was very popular in italy becuase yu could have twice the running lenght with the same ammount of film. 2-perf looks grainy, and thats whats describes the atmospheric style of the maestros work. Fulci made atmosphere like no other could. Fulci cared about the technique. On se, he worked very hard to make the film look as good as humanly possible with all the few resources he could use. He didn't have the same oppertunities as Argento, Soavi or Bava, but he made the best of the little he had. He was a trye artisan.
Umberto Lenzi would support me on this one. He's said that Fulci was an extremly hardworking man who deserved so much better. Co238ming from umberto, a very talented and underrated director with a good taste og technique, says a lot. -
mdsmith101 — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 06:48 AM)
That's pretty much what I wanted to know in the first place. One question to you: Do you think that the early 80's video nasties craze might have spoilt his name here in the UK?
As for The Beyond, opening the film in sepia is a nice touch. I heard that Francis Coppola mixed some of that into Godfather to acheieve a certain look. At the end of "Beyond" the last two characters run into the beyond (Hell?) their eyes turn white and they're stuck there.
For me, personally it like the end of Jaws (the book), kind of like, oh. As compared to the screaming, wailing, smashing end of Suspiria. I was reading this morning about the end of City of the Living Dead. Y'know when the kid runs towards the survivors as they climb out of the ground. Sad to hear that the original end was damaged and had to be re-shot - so the kid was a zombie? Ambiguous, but so what, Italians are known for leaving a certain amount to the imagination.
Do you know of any books about Fulci that I could get on the cheap? I used to have Broken Mirrors/Broken Minds which is exhaustively about Dario Argento and his films (did you know that Suspiria is loosely based on a true story?).
'I can't have a hairy chest, B, that's f***ed!' -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 09:25 AM)
Yes, the video nasty-rubbish ruined a big part of his name in the UK, because politically correct-people were unable to se the substance in his films. In their eyes, it was explotive violence and nothing more.
Yes, in the end of The Beyond, the protaginists enter hell - the afterlife. They become souls that lives in a place without nothing. Life is an illusion, and behind the horizon is the true fact of life.
The ending in City of the Living Deas is actually based upon a little joke by maestro Vicenzo Tomassi. One day when he and Fulci sat in the editing-room editing the film, Vicenzo discovered on a piece of film that the two protagonists in the end of the film were having an argument in that particular scene, and also, like you said, the film of the scene where the kid comes running towards the protaginists was damaged, s he decided to cut and paste them together so it looked like the ending was bad, when in fact it was all based upon a little joke by a certain Vincenzo.
The best book on Fub68lci today is Stephen Thrower's "Beyond Terror - The Films of Lucio Fulci", which in my opinion may be the best book ever written in history. Thrower shares som pretty deep thoughts upon the maestro's films, and managed to weld the many ideas behind his films. -
mdsmith101 — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 11:31 AM)
Thank you, NerdofHorror. You have sucessfully answered my question and I will soon be scouring the web for Mr Throwers book. I was reading your reviews here at IMDb, what on earth was that Japanese/Chinese vampire film? It had a bizarre title, your comments made me laugh, believe me the film sounds inept in the extreme.
If you could maybe recommend some other horror titles to me it would be appreciated.
If you like you could check out some of my reviews here please fe2000el free.
'Maybe he lives next door to YOU!' -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 12:11 PM)
Yes, it's called A Bite of Love. It was so, so bad.
It's hard to recommend horrortitles when it, in fact, excists so many of them. It's probably the biggest genre of them all, and definently the widest. If you can be a bit more specific, i may help you. -
mdsmith101 — 21 years ago(August 06, 2004 02:52 PM)
Clear your mind and think of say, 10 titles that spring to mind. As one horror movie fan to another I would recommend:
GINGER SNAPS
HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES
SUSPIRIA
NIGHT OF THE DEMON (1958)
BLACK CHRISTMAS
SILVER BULLET
THE PROPHECY (1995-ish)
RE-ANIMATOR
EVIL DEAD 2: DEAD BY DAWN
RABID
My girlfriend is endlessly throwing this kind of question at me, now I'm asking people all over the place it as well, only with her it's more like 10 films with Tom Cruise. Groan!
Did you see Uwe Boll's "House of the Dead"? I saw it a few months back and reviewed it. I felt that it borrowed heavily from House by the Cemetary and Zombie Flesh Eaters. Only badly.
"Groovy." -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(August 07, 2004 07:24 AM)
I haven't seen House of the Dead yet. I don't really watch a lot of new horrormainstream. I like the old stuff. Well, here's 10 great horrorfilms (and i won't count any Fulci-films in it, because you probably know what i think of his films):
- Night of the Demon (1980)
- Cannibal Man
- Nekromantik
- Nekromantik 2
- Schramm
- Der Todesking
- Santa Sangre
- Nightmare City
- The Gore-Gore Girls
- Combat Shock (not really a horrorfilm, but still such a fine piece of art)
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divisionbell-2 — 14 years ago(May 09, 2011 01:03 PM)
How about City of the Living Deadwhat the heck was up with the ending? The kid runs towards the two survivorsthe woman starts screamingand it just ENDS. Now THAT is a huge plot hole
To the very toes he is terrified, because the ground gives way under him, And the dream begins -
fightceramics — 21 years ago(January 04, 2005 06:21 AM)
I'm not sure if you guys are gonna check this, but I have a quote from Mr. Fulci that perfectly explains the intention of the incoherent nature of his plots:
" . . . my idea was to make an absolute film . . . there's no logic to it, just a succession of images. The Sea of Darkness (from the final scene in The Beyond), for instance, is an absolute world, an immobile world where every horizon is similar . . . Both films [here Fulci is comparing the Beyond with Inferno] have no structure. We tried in Italy to make films based on pure themes, without a plot, and The Beyond, like Inferno, refuses conventions and traditional structures . . . People who blame The Beyond for its lack of story have no understood that it's a film of images, which must be received without reflection . . ."
The same can be said for House by the Cemetery and most other Fulci films from this period. I hope this helps someone.
Oh, and Nerdofhorror, you're angry and obsessed to the Nth. Please, please get a grip. -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(January 07, 2005 02:42 AM)
What does Nth meada0n?
I'm not angry. I just think it's amazing that people think of him as inept. Mostly, the people who say this, have no clue about italian cinema and what the director's try to express. A lot of them don't even care, and that says something. -
fightceramics — 21 years ago(January 07, 2005 04:55 PM)
The Nth degree. It means like "the highest amount."
It just seemed like you snapped at everyone who said something negative about Lucio Fulci. I can understand why most people don't like Fulci.
I think his films are an acquired taste. The first Fulci film I saw was Sombie Flesh Eaters, which is the most mainstream and accessible of his work. I still enjoy his zombie films the most, but I love his other horror and giallo films too(I'm still working towards the other genres). The more I watched them and read about them, the more I understood them and liked them.
The people who think that Fulci is inept or crude aren't ignorant, they just haven't had the chance to completely absorb everything about his films and ideas. -
NerdofHorror — 21 years ago(January 10, 2005 12:00 AM)
Yes, i do think most of them are ignorant, because a lot of them are not willing to even try to absorb his films. They often "make up" conclusions of his films that's not even correct.
So to think of him as inept, is mostly done by people who don't understand, and are not willing to understand his craft. -
delicreep — 20 years ago(July 14, 2005 05:27 PM)
While I have a soft spot for Fulci, I find his films hit or miss. I'm sympathetic to his final years, where his obstinance was greatly exacerbated by his poor health. I don't hold those against him to a great degree. Taking his canon of horror films together, the crap-films greatly outnumber the watchable ones.
The Beyond is probably his "purest" film. The worldview is downbeat and cynical, like Fulci's. It's not just a horror film with a fashionably grim ending. The movie IS confusing in that events occur outside of a solid timeframe(especially the final third), but this was intentional in order to keep the viewer off balance, and to make the narrative more like a sinister dream.
The Beyond works well, for the most part. Not everything clicks, though. Hence, the absolutely ludicrous, show-stopping-for-all-the-wrong-reasons spider attack. Talk about a mood breaking scene. Ouch, Maestro.
And, yes, Fulci has suffered at the hands of indiffere16d0nt video distributors. Mostly the early VHS releases. The Beyond was edited and released as Seven Doors of Death (I can only imagine, with footage missing, how much more jumbled this film would seem). Hell, the Vestron VHS of House by the Cemetery had scenes IN THE WRONG ORDER. Add to that the usual Pan and Scan, full-frame abuse that so many imported horror flicks suffered through, and it's no surprise most people think Fulci is a complete hack. He wasn't a hack. An inconsistent filmmaker, but no hack.
I'm not too keen on Nekromantik, myself. I've rarely encountered a film so pathetic that tries so hard to shock. I saw it on video around 1990 after reading about it from Chas. Balun and his Deep Red cronies. After watching it, I was mystified as to how something so dull and pretentious got so much good press. I just found the movie BORING. I assume that Nekromantik looked great most of the Yankee crowd in 1989-90 because our own horror films had degenerated into "thrillomedies" and other bloodless, spineless dreck. The ending is a kick, though. I suppose a lousy film with a great denoument looks better overall than a decent movie with a crappy ending (Deliria aka Stagefright, I'm looking at YOU). -
mdsmith101 — 20 years ago(July 14, 2005 11:48 PM)
I've always wondering if the conversion to pan & scan destroying any concepts that LF might have for. House by the Cemetary is very muddled in pan & scan, Suspiria had a similiar problem.
Stage Fright did have a crap ending (I think it was for a quick sell to the Yanks)
A - Attention
I - Interest
D - Decision
A - Action! -
delicreep — 20 years ago(July 15, 2005 04:58 PM)
Pan & Scan is bad, but its not as bad as the cropping that plagued older VHS releases. Ever see a close-up of the bridge of someone's nose? It was probably a shot of their eyes, but the image has been "cropped" in order to fit a TV screen. S1c84ome films lose whole characters from sequences because of this. Cropping has slaughtered many Italian giallo & horror films.
If you want details on the video formatting process, check out this link: http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/