So I tried getting into classical music again and the only composer…..
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fud-slush — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 05:15 AM)
Vivaldi? Yawn - those endless sonatas & concertos all sound the same - & if Mozart & Beethoven do nothing for you then I can't imagine anything else would appeal. Bach shyts on Vivaldi from about 50,000 feet. He shyts on most composers, & thus it's strange that you like him. Any particular works?
It's tempting to say that your liking of Vivaldi probably stems from the fact that it's so easy to graspthere's nothing musically challenging in his writing. -
Supernaut123 — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 06:32 AM)
I dont see Mozart and Beethoven challenging as much as kinda dull. Besides if i want challenging music I think Stockhausen would make more sense. I listen to The four seasons and it sounds much more mature, elegant, and personal to me than when i listen to music by Beethoven and Mozart. I cant really recall composition names well when it comes to classical composers.
Can we agree Bach beep all over Mozart and Beethoven? -
fud-slush — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 07:08 AM)
No, we can't agree that I'm afraid! Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner & Stravinsky are, for me, the 5 greatest composers of all, with the likes of Brahms, Strauss, Debussy coming in behind. Vivaldi wouldn't make my top 50.
I've no idea how you could possibly hear Vivaldi's music as more mature than Beethoven or Mozartthe latters' pieces have so much more depth, so much more to investigate, study or learn from, & thus to enjoy. Vivaldi's music is extremely predictable; it never surprises, its modulations or orchestrations are elementary & unsatisfyingthere's just nothing to get your teeth into. It's all 'nice' too, & nice is boring. -
Supernaut123 — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 10:09 AM)
The only thing that matters to me in the end is that I like Vivaldis music a lot and I dont like Beethoven and Mozarts that much at all. I just cant be damned to care which is more complex or innovative.
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fontinau — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 07:12 AM)
Metal fans often like music from the late "Baroque" period - Vivaldi and Bach (and apparently, at least in this case, Handel) - the obvious reason being that metal lead guitar is largely a pastiche of that style to begin with.
Rest assured, by the way, Vivaldi is plenty popular these days. -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 03:55 PM)
This would greatly depend on what kind of metal they like. A quality fairly unique to Vivaldi that reminds me most of metal is the very insistent rhythmic drive, which is often integrated into the lead "hook" rather than having the melody "float" over the top of it. I also think it depends on what you mean by "lead metal playing;" if it's the solos, then it's probably closer to the concerto form that developed out of the classical period into romanticism (with virtuoso guitarists compared to virtuosos like Liszt and Paganini); if it's the lead guitar melodies then that's more particular to early metal and later melodic-based metal, which I think shares qualities with both the directness of Vivaldi, but also the cantabile approach of Mozart (and sometimes Haydn and Beethoven). Vivaldi's simplicity also makes him closer to the song-oriented approach of classic metal ca. Priest and Maiden, some thrash, and all power metal; less so of the more prog and tech inflected metal that came after. Bands like Opeth and Emperor are probably closer to the longer structures and darker tones of late romanticism (Mahler, Bruckner, etc.) and the more traditional modernists (like Shosta) than the baroque. There are also plenty of more experimental metal bands out there today (Kayo Dot, eg) that are also closer to Modernism.
warriorspirit
: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost. -
fontinau — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 05:16 PM)
A quality fairly unique to Vivaldi that reminds me most of metal is the very insistent rhythmic drive, which is often integrated into the lead "hook" rather than having the melody "float" over the top of it.
I would say the part of that unique to Vivaldi - and his acolyte J. S. Bach - is the "very" (that is, the vehemence). "Insistent [monotonous] rhythmic drive" is simply the early 18th century convention. Anyway, I would say the approximate similarity of Vivaldi's and Bach's rhythm to rock is one reason why, when rock musicians (see also the Beatles, the Byrds, the Who) want to sound "classical," they try to sound like them more often than Mozart, Beethoven, or Wagner. Another reason is that Vivaldi and Bach sound classy but not pretty (like Mozart and Chopin) or pompous (like Handel and every Romantic who isn't Chopin).
I also think it depends on what you mean by "lead metal playing;" if it's the solos, then it's probably closer to the concerto form that developed out of the classical period into romanticism (with virtuoso guitarists compared to virtuosos like Liszt and Paganini); if it's the lead guitar melodies then that's more particular to early metal and later melodic-based metal, which I think shares qualities with both the directness of Vivaldi, but also the cantabile approach of Mozart (and sometimes Haydn and Beethoven).
I mean anything that sounds like the "Stairway To Heaven" solo (no I'm not saying Led Zeppelin is metal). I submit that metal soloing has approximately nothing to do with the classical concerto. -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 05:38 PM)
I would say the part of that unique to Vivaldi - and his acolyte J. S. Bach - is the "very" (that is, the vehemence). "Insistent [monotonous] rhythmic drive" is simply the early 18th century convention.
While I do hear it in other 18th century music it doesn't seem as dominant as it does in Vivaldi, and that may have something to do with the "hook in the rhythm" approach as well.
Another reason is that Vivaldi and Bach sound classy but not pretty (like Mozart and Chopin) or pompous (like Handel and every Romantic who isn't Chopin).
Hmmm, I think both Vivaldi and Bach frequently sound pretty, the latter occasionally pompous (hard to imagine anyone with the audacity to write a work titled "The Art of (Anything)" not being a bit pompous!).
I mean anything that sounds like the "Stairway To Heaven" solo (no I'm not saying Led Zeppelin is metal). I submit that metal soloing has approximately nothing to do with the classical concerto.
Yeah, I made the distinction because either solos or some melodic riffs (often played over a rhythm riff) can be referred to as "guitar leads" (ala the melodic riff that opens Maiden's The Trooper:
).
The classical concerto link is the virtuosic element. Not that baroque music doesn't require virtuoso skills, but it rarely seems as ostensibly designed as a display of skill the way many classical and romantic concertos were. From that period I think fantasy and other improvisational styles are closer, but they're often for solo instruments without any backing ensemble.
warriorspirit
: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost. -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 05:55 PM)
Have no idea what's hipster or indie about either; though both are terms that are tossed around so liberally as to be practically meaningless now. Kayo Dot is only nominally metal anyway, and then only on their first and last albums. Up until Crack the Skye Mastodon just seemed pretty old-fashioned metal with modern hardcore/death vocals. Crack was more prog, then it was back to more old-school stuff.
warriorspirit
: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost. -
Eva_Yojimbo — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 06:02 PM)
He may have been trying but I didn't take it as very inflammatory, partly because I like a lot of what's called "indie rock" anyway and don't give a hoot whether something is labeled "hipster" or not; I'm just curious as to how he arrived at that comparison with those bands in particular.
warriorspirit
: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost. -
drunkbear — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 11:21 AM)
Try the Russians, esp. Stravinski and Moussorgski. They were very experimental, and turned out some surprising - and surprisingly-enjoyable - music.
- Oh, SOMEbody asides me is gonna RUE this here particular day