or just true.
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Citizen Kane
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(June 14, 2016 02:33 AM)
or just true.
Truthfully, this was a good movie. I saw this as a kid in high school in the 70's
and it was good but in the intervening year it has become like Star Trek the
original series I love it and have a place for it deep in my heart, but it just doesn't
work as a movie any more because it is so single-threaded and slow moving.
It is a pity it is like a museum piece or a 100 year old car fun to look at and
think about but it doesn't work anymore. -
doug65oh — 9 years ago(June 19, 2016 12:37 AM)
Well, you know, perhaps it is although Im not sure Id call it clich. What is in fact clichd I think is the overwhelming desire we see so often nowadays is to dismiss
Kane
or any other popular book or movie we dont like as over-rated. It all depends on
whos doing the rating
at any given time, and thats all that can really and truly be said about the matter. Time and again I see things dismissed as over-rated in rants extending for hundreds of words, close reading of which only begs the questions, Really? Is that the very best you can do? Not very
original
today are we?
I dont watch the film religiously, but I do enjoy a viewing now and then of a quiet afternoon. Its a great film. In terms of comparables I dont believe there was one truly, once upon a time unless some case could be made likening it to the Mercury Theatre production of Julius Caesar done in the summer of 1938.
In both Caesar and
Citizen Kane
what do we have but a newfangled telling of what is actually a story as old as Caesar himself if not older. Friends, Romans, Countrymen, this much we know: That somewhere beneath the pyre where great Caesar was burned there may (and I say may) lie one small trace of ash, that which in succeeding ages prove that him we mourn today was not a god but a person of flesh and blood, as are we all.
Literary hogwashing aside, what do we find in Charlie Kane? That (as a half-crazed Dane once reportedly mused) is the question. Thats the beauty of the thing for my nickel: Not one of the characters portrayed in
Kane
really knew him although in some cases theyd known him for years. What was it Jed Leland said? Well, I thought I was his friend, but maybe I was just a stooge
They all knew Charlie in ways, but his death has shaken them almost to the core, revealing not so much a Who was he? story but rather a Who am I? story.
If
Citizen Kane
suffers from anything as years pile upon years, I would say (again, for my own nickel) Welless bloated ego/reputation is as responsible as anything else. He left us a wonderful legacy, but in the end (like Charlie Kane and the rest of us) he was a human being.
Its not a film fit for zombies, thats for sure! -
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(June 19, 2016 01:18 PM)
"Citizen Kane" is the cliche best movie, it is constantly mentioned as the best movie of all time, thus my characterizing it as cliche. Historically it is an important movie, I'll grant that, I never meant not to, but it is a study in a the myth of the rich man. It is pandering to the audience in my opinion we common men supposedly want to believe that all rich people are missing something vital to character and a good life. While that might be true for lots and lots of rich people, it is a cliche.
-
dsliquid — 9 years ago(August 24, 2016 09:15 AM)
"we common men supposedly want to believe that all rich people are missing something vital to character and a good life."
Hmmm, no? It's the complete opposite, which is why movies like these are important! Most people think that wealth, status and power are what make us happy, which is why "we" strive so hard to get those things.
The truth is that they don't make you happy at all. Sure, some very wealthy people are happy, but that's not because of their wealth. There are completely different things that really matter! -
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(July 24, 2016 04:51 PM)
I remember liking it the first time I saw it in the 70's in school as a teen.
It is a teen movie, with fairly quaint simple ideas. But I could not ever sit
through it again, and even find it annoying for its simple-mindedness and
a kind of coldness. It catches something well,
I love classic movies, but to me this may well be classified as a technical
classic, but in terms of emotion, I agree, it is hard to love. We have a local
theater that plays only old movies, from the 20's to the 50's, maybe a 60's
once or twice a year. They change their films twice a week. So I have seen
a lot of old movies that are all very good. The older movies have a heart,
consistency and focus that is completely absent in today's movies. So,
part of being a classic would be hitting that note. I think young people of
today do not know what they are missing, or what a classic even is in some
cases. Sorry to be condescending, which I am sure that sounds like. -
TheArtOfBeingRandom34523 — 9 years ago(July 24, 2016 09:52 PM)
Well yes, Citizen Kane is shot in a rather cold way, but this might be intentional.
Your definition of old movies is simply spot-on, althogh it's not always true, old movies just have that magic and that charisma that gets you into the movie even if you've seen it 10 times.
I also find this to happen with 80s movies, but in a different way. -
Symarip — 9 years ago(January 08, 2017 11:41 PM)
I think young people of today do not know what they are missing, or what a classic even is in some cases. Sorry to be condescending, which I am sure that sounds like.
Yeah, there's that, and then there's the fact that your post is nothing but a bunch of generalizations. -
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(August 24, 2016 12:03 PM)
You like the movie, that is fine.
I am just saying that to me, it is more historically memorable, like an old building
that was revolutionary in its day, but that would not serve a useful purpose today.
For theme and story, cinematography, score, etc I would give it a 6/10, but it is
a classic, in the sense of "Birth Of A Nation" that one might want to watch once
to have seen it, but as things progress that becomes more and more of an effort. -
CapnKaos — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 06:58 PM)
While I'll admit it's cliche to say it's one of your favorite movies or it's in your top 10 of all time simply because you've heard it's so good, it's not cliche to say it's one of the finest movies ever made. Simply because it's true.
Citizen Kane is one of those rare movies that I've given a perfect 10 to in terms of score. Part of this is due to the technical side of things as Orson Wells pioneered certain film making techniques in this movie. Things like deep focus were first used in this and now it's used everywhere. The use of high, medium and low angles. Tracking shots. Montage editing. POV shots. The masterful use of sound. The lighting. The list goes on. And that's not to say that he created all of these but he was the first to use them in such a way as to bring them to the people.
Then there's the dialogue. It's not the "theater" dialogue as you'd see in a movie during that time. If you've ever seen a movie from the 30's or 40's the characters have a way of speaking that isn't completely natural. I've always called this "theater acting" as that was what movies were up until that time. They were plays put on in front of a camera and they felt and sounded like it. The dialogue in this movie is sharp. It's fresh at least for the time. It feels a little dated today but remember, this was almost 75 years ago. It was a paradigm shift back then.
Orson Welles was not only the director, but the star, producer and writer of the movie. Can you name me one person today that is capable of all four things
at the same time
? That's a lot of work. The man was a perfectionist and it shows.
So no, it's not the most overrated movie of all time. -
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 07:06 PM)
The problem with this movie, and the reason that, according to modern American
culture and beliefs, that this movie is cliche is that it is a simplistic story told with
too much drama. Everyone likes to think that really rich people are miserable and
yet look who we just elected President. That is why this movie is meaningless, except
for its historic value, it panders to the simple American people, who used to be nice
and are not more or less very ugly all around the world. -
theuserformerlyknownasfrantruff — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 07:57 PM)
I've always thought that the true "message" of this film is that you can never truly know a person, that everyone plays the part of several different people depending on who they are interacting with, and that once you are dead only those impressions remain, regardless of how wrong (or accurate) they may have been. The "lonely at the top" story has never been the main appeal for me (although I do like it).
-
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 08:36 PM)
that is a valid impression, but then why was the movie about a super rich successful guy, contrasted with the people around him? Who cares if he was just a little kid inside if no one xould stand him. I think you cannot ignore the larger aspects of a movie. By the way did you know that Donald Trump said this is his favorite movie?
-
theuserformerlyknownasfrantruff — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 09:01 PM)
It was about a super rich guy because Mankiewicz wanted to write about Hearst and Welles loved the Shakespearean "giant destroyed by hubris" trope.
Kane's nostalgia for his childhood is not supposed to justify everything he did, just to offer a possible explanation (and, again, that's just how Kane himself saw his life, he may just have been trying to justify his actions to himself). By the way, Bernstein seemed to idolize the man, and Thatcher painted him as an idealist destroyed by the world, so not everyone hated the guy.
Yeah, I know it's Trump's favorite film. The man has got good taste in movies, at least
-
CapnKaos — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 09:58 PM)
The problem with this movie, and the reason that, according to modern American
culture and beliefs, that this movie is cliche is that it is a simplistic story told with
too much drama.
How is any of that cliche? Do you know what that word actually means because I think you don't.
Everyone likes to think that really rich people are miserable and yet look who we just elected President.
You might like to think that but I don't know of anybody that likes to think the rich are miserable. Honestly this sounds less like a critique of the movie than your own personal feelings towards the rich.
Speaking of which, what is "really rich" according to your criteria?
That is why this movie is meaningless, except for its historic value, it panders to the simple American people, who used to be nice and are not more or less very ugly all around the world.
You obviously don't get it if this is how you think.
There are three types of people that like Citizen Kane. The first are those, like in my original post, who say they like it because they heard how good it was and they know the meaning behind Rosebud. There are those that like it because it's a well made, well acted and well directed film. Then there are the film nerds who analyze everything about it and get off on how it was made.
With the exception of the first group, I wouldn't call the other two "simple". And you're also excluding everybody who isn't American. I'm sure there are Canadians who like it. I'd also be willing to bet that a lot of Brits, Kiwis and Aussies like it as well. Then the fact that it's been translated into just about every language in the world, I'm sure you'd be able to find fans of this from all over the globe.
Seriously. This is coming across more like you feel this way and you're imposing your reasons onto everybody. -
bruce-129 — 9 years ago(January 19, 2017 10:04 PM)
How is any of that cliche? Do you know what that word actually means because I think you don't.
Grow up, you're too rude and low-brow to have a discussion with, without insults and hyperbola.
Good bye - ignored! -
TwoThousandOneMark — 9 years ago(January 29, 2017 12:14 PM)
Ask a teenager in the year 2060 how influential the iPod was, let alone iPhone. They'll laugh in your face.
my essential 50
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls056413299/