Fats employed every trick to beat Felson; otherwise he loses.
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isolated_ions — 11 years ago(June 07, 2014 08:37 PM)
What are you talking about, you totally disagree with the post? With which part(s), exactly? I'm asking because it was a fairly long post, and so far I'm not seeing what it is you feel you disagree with me on.
To respond to your post though, there's nothing I disagree with here regarding the movie. The only thing I would argue about, and this is in a more general context (i.e. not being mutually exclusive, OR inclusive of the film), is the line:
That is what winners do, they will do anything to win.
For example, someone who takes PEDs, or has their competition's kneecap broken would be considered a winner? 'Cause, you know,
that's what winners do, they will do anything to win. -
stevielanding — 10 years ago(November 09, 2015 10:04 PM)
Novices always assume that the best player is the one who wins. And those who don't hustle assume that the best player is the best hustler.
Felson was the best? In what world? Anybody can have the shots. It takes skill to know how to win. One very easy way to see Felson's amateurishness is to look at his masse shot. Only a fool would take that shot. Sure, they all practice it, but in a game you are giving up position for random placement. Most of straight pool is simply setting up your opponent for a bad shot until somebody leaves a wide open shot.
There would be no nine ball except the real Minnesota (New York) Fats could not compete with the likes of Mosconi in straight pool; but undoubtedly the Fat Man was the more proficient hustler, despite not being close to the best player. The Fat Man was known for "poke and hope" shots. Because he hustled, he often won with such bad strategy against much lesser players. And because he hustled, he didn't go head to head with the best except televised matches. He knew where the money was, and that's all he cared about.
Mairzy doats and dozy doats, but liddle lamzi nothing. -
gol_profondo-50975 — 10 years ago(November 26, 2015 03:16 AM)
You don't have to judge the character of Eddie from his shot selection in the games you see in the movie. Even Fats makes a lot of bank shots, which are rarely used in straight pool, unless you're in a really bad situation.
I think the director / production just wanted to put in the movie some spectacular shots for the audience. Eddie even makes a bank-kick-combo shot which have 0,1% to success in real life come on!
There's no real technical reliability from this point of view. -
kag2 — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 05:12 PM)
Consider what happened when a cocky Eddie, leading by $1,000 at 4 AM raised the bet from $200 to $1,000 per game. Fats calls for Preacher and asks for some white tap and whiskey, ice and a glass. But Fats doesn't ACCEPT the bet until after Eddie then follows by asking Preacher to bring him some JTS Bourbon, no ice, no glass. Then Fats accepts the bet, and tells Preacher to get it at Johnny's (a signal for Preacher to get Bert, and possibly to cut his whiskey).
- Fats knew he was in trouble, and sought to get Eddie drinking. Fats' whiskey would be cut a bit from ice, and perhaps much more if Preacher cut Fat's whiskey with water and fruit juice. So Fats' slightly (or significantly) cut whiskey against Eddie's straight bourbon would give Fats an edge.
- Fats probably realized Eddie had been shooting pool since 10 am or so, some 18 hours straight. Fats might have slept during the day, arriving at the pool hall fresh and rested at 8 PM. With 8 hours played, and many hours of pool shooting ahead of them, Fats would soon gain an edge as Eddie, particularly a drinking Eddie, would tire.
- Fats wanted his money man Bert for backing and advice. Later, Eddie was up $18,000 and Fats was unsure about continuing. Then Bert told him "Stay with this kid, he's a loser." It was good advice. Bert probably realized better than Fats that Eddie was over-tired, had drunk more, and was likely to burn out. As he did.
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CashIsSupreme — 9 years ago(January 04, 2017 09:09 AM)
I realize it's been more than a year but I had to reply to this post. The way it is worded you seem to think that the Minnesota Fats character in the book and movie is based on the pool player who later called himself Minnesota Fats. That's not how it happened. The guy who called himself Minnesota Fats was a second-rate con artist who took the name after the book was written and falsely claimed the character was based on him.
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afredfan — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 08:52 AM)
Totally agree. Talent is not all you need for success in a competitive confrontation. Fats figured out early on WHY Eddie was playing; Eddie was playing for glory. Just like in poker, if you can deduce WHY other players are playing, you are half-way to beating them.
Fats was certainly NOT drinking real alcohol. The scene where they order drinks, Fats give the man his money, then almost as an after thought says "get it at Johnny's". That is a signal. So Fats is drinking, at most, 1/3 the amount of alcohol or less with ice, while Eddie is downing straight liquor. A common tactic in poker and pool.
Fats is not as talented as Eddie, that's true. But Fats is better than Eddie drunk, Eddie tired, or Eddie frustrated. Fats never lets himself into those areas. Fats knows his own limits, whereas Eddie did not understand himself.
Fats played the man, Eddie played pool. Result, the better man won the first confrontation.