Prof. Groeteschele's Sexuality
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Cleon — 20 years ago(September 12, 2005 12:20 PM)
Re-watch it. He is disgusted with her because she takes sick, decadent amusement in the idea of millions dying, millions she thinks are inferior. In contrast, his harsh views are diametrically opposed to what he sees as the decadent and dangerous weakness of allowing emotion and compassion to enter into nuclear deterrence policy. The scene isn't meant to call his heterosexuality into question, rather it is there to show how deadly serious he is about what he believes. He sees himself as total realist. Not only won't he compromise his views to bed a beautiful woman, he is revolted at the idea that someone would derive pleasure from the draconion advice he proposes.
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andy_thrust2000 — 20 years ago(October 09, 2005 04:21 AM)
CleonI totally agree with you.He was being shown as a man of conviction not to be dissuaded or affected by even the charms of a beautiful and desirable woman.Dedicated to his cause and as you alluded to yourself,disgusted by those who think anything less of the immensity of nuclear war.The key word here being decadent,which she certainly exhibited with her arousal for power and control.
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bhoover247 — 20 years ago(October 13, 2005 01:01 PM)
Prof. Groeteschele didn't think that much about the "immensity" of nuclear war. He was a bureaucrat that blindly followed his assignment. The woman brought a humanity to his facts and figures that made him uncomfortable.
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mattsantoro — 20 years ago(October 24, 2005 02:05 AM)
Also, right before this scene with IIsa Wolfe the host of the party asks the Professor to come again and to bring his wife next time. So the professor was married thus giving further motivation for not bedding Ms. Wolfe
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enkidu3200 — 20 years ago(November 13, 2005 03:34 PM)
I agree with most of what has been said. I think it possible that the Professor's character was based on a loose combination of Kissinger and Herman Khan, a cold war think tank speacialist known for his book "On Thermonuclear War" where he argues that a nuclear war is winable. Both men were hard-core real-politique advocates, so much so that they lost all sense of humanity. A strange world we live in were Kissinger could drop bombs on North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and win the Nobel Peace Prize for it.
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mikekrit62 — 12 years ago(August 12, 2013 06:29 PM)
Kissinger was Sec of State. He didn't drop bombs on anyone.
I find it a much stranger world in which an animal like Yassar Arafat wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Down right bizarre when a President wins one for doing absolutely nothing. -
jgroub — 15 years ago(October 05, 2010 09:03 AM)
I just saw it again the other day for the hundredth time, and this was the first time I noticed the hostess saying that he must bring his wife next time. Explains more about the scene with Ms. Wolfe.
I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well. -
andy_thrust2000 — 20 years ago(November 23, 2005 12:18 AM)
bhooverSo when he slapped her and said"I'm not your kind" it was because she made him uncomfortable?:)Bureaucratic he was,but I wouldn't say he was some sort of blind automaton,he was very certain of his beliefs."I'm not a poet,I'm a political scientist"
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colin-69 — 20 years ago(January 25, 2006 04:18 PM)
Watch what she is doing.
The more he talks, the more excited she gets.
Look at her face and eyes.
She blots the lipstick from her lips.
Then she touches him for a moment, and lies back on the carseat.
As she lowers her eyes, her hand is moving
She's not reaching for the chewing gum!!!!!!!
She got slapped for where she reached.
He was a married man and didn't want any part of her games or twisted fantasy.
notice how his part of the conversation was quite matter-of factly and flippant?
He knew her type and how to push her buttons. but he didn't want any part of it. -
rogueforte — 20 years ago(February 18, 2006 04:30 PM)
I have another take on Groeteschele's rejection of Ilsa Wolfe's sexual advances. While he ostensively indicates that he despises her for her apparent arousal over his theories on mass nuclear annihilation, Groeteschele may suspect (if not outright know) that Wolfe is not Jewish (as well as a possible Communist, to boot).
Although it is not explicitly stated, it's certainly implied that Groeteschele is Jewish in the later confrontation with General Black when an obviously excited Groeteschele exclaims that if every Jew had been armed and resisted the Nazis, there wouldn't have been a Holocaust, and that they had learned from them to which Black replies that Groeteschele has learned all too well, implying that Groetschele has become exactly the same as what he hates.
IOW, as the Nazi theory of Aryan superiority believed themselves to be the Master Race and could not dilute it by interbreeding with inferior races, Groeteschele, likewise, cannot have sex with an 'inferior', which is, quite obviously, how he regards Ilsa Wolfe.
I think this is the whole point of the scene, to reinforce that Groeteschele, in his quest to perpetuate his chosen political system and eliminate all others, is every bit as bad as his perceived enemies. -
harold_forsko — 20 years ago(March 28, 2006 12:53 AM)
Prof. Groeteschele is the first representation of what we now call a neocon. Before he has his confrontation with General Black, he urges a first strike on the Soviet Union: "Every minute we wait works against us. Now, Mr. Secretary, now is the time to send in a first strike and if we actmow, right now, our casaulties will be minimal."
Then General Black turns around and challenges him, "Do you know what you're saying?" -
mike-848 — 12 years ago(May 16, 2013 10:15 PM)
Interesting take on Groeteschele rejecting her advances but I don't remember anything in the film indicating her being a Gentile or Red so I think your premise is a stretch. She just seemed to be a cheating wife whose fetish was thinking about millions of deaths caused by her pushing a button and getting sexually aroused by it.
Also, it's only much later in the film as you pointed out do we realize he may be Jewish.
If the writers wanted to, they could have pursued your angle just to give the film an added twist which I think would have been very interesting but showing Jewish racial/ religious supremacists (and I have run into them) would have been a no - no then as it is now. -
jgroub — 10 years ago(January 21, 2016 09:14 PM)
Although it is not explicitly stated, it's certainly implied that Groeteschele is Jewish in the later confrontation with General Black when an obviously excited Groeteschele exclaims that if every Jew had been armed and resisted the Nazis, there wouldn't have been a Holocaust, and that they had learned from them to which Black replies that Groeteschele has learned all too well, implying that Groetschele has become exactly the same as what he hates.
Yes, this is heavily implied by this exchange, and the novel makes it clear. Groeteschele was actually born in Germany, got out in the 30s (his father, who was a respected surgeon, couldn't get his license to transfer to the US, and had to become a butcher instead). Groeteschele joins the Army, and with his perfect German, becomes an interrogator of captured Nazi War Criminals.
I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.