Was it the 'typical' the 'con' or the 'logic' bit that made you cry?
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MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 09:51 PM)
Except that the flag is racist.
The flag represents the country called the Confederate States of America, who based their nation on well, in the words of one of the founders, who served as its Vice-President ?Our new government is founded? upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth?? Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, Savannah, Georgia, 1861.
"The subsequent PR sanitization efforts to redefine what the CSA, its flag and the reason it went to war with the North is called the "heritage not hate" effort, and it was known to be claptrap even back then.
"Famed Confederate partisan leader Colonel John S. Mosby was equally forthright. ?I?ve always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about,? he wrote a former comrade in 1894. ?I?ve never heard of any other cause than slavery.?
"Mosby, [South Carolina politician Robert Barnwell] Rhett, [Confederate President] Davis, [Vice President Alexander] Stephens, and other Confederates had no difficulty conceding what their descendants go to enormous lengths to deny: that the raison d?tre of the Confederacy was the defense of slavery."
This is the history, in the very words of the leaders themselves. -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 08:09 PM)
Well, that's what the leaders themselves said.
Here's a couple of notes from my Evernote -
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s90/nl/10185073/9ab22ce9-b61a-4c25-a3c0-ef54b19c9b7f?title=How people convince themselves that the Confederate flag represents freedom%2C not slavery - The Washington Post
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s90/nl/10185073/2d33315f-c2c3-4458-bbb8-5cbd8c47e9e7?title=What This Cruel War Was Over
and these articles have plenty of links to additional documentation.
After the war, there was an effort to sanitize the language (developing dog-whistle terminology including heritage, states' rights, liberty, freedom, etc), but the original leaders, as you'll have read from the above, were not having it; for them, "slavery was the only reason they'd ever known."
So, yeah, the terms people use today to deflect from slavery as the primary (if not single) reason for secession and formation of the Confederate States of America, and over which they fought the North, are terms they came up with deliberately, a strategy the original leaders never embraced, because they felt their cause was God-ordained, right, and on which they should neither be ashamed nor certainly try to hide. In fact, CSA Vice President Alexander Stephens said, very plainly,
"Our new government is founded upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.
This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth
Alexander Stephens, Cornerstone Speech, Savannah, Georgia, 1861
So, again, based on documentation I've read, I see a clear development of ideas from before the War, during and then after the war, extending well through the 20th century (you're welcome to search around in my Evernote, search terms including dog-whistle, Lee Atwater) that is rooted in the South's determination to celebrate and champion slavery as the foundation of their way of life and extend it to South America (next on the agenda after taking care of the North in the Civil War).
Trying real hard to be the shepherd. -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 06:01 AM)
Yes, I do.
Because those who founded the CSA and fought the North said that's why they did.
Why do you ask? Did you buy into the sanitation, or do you agree with those who seceeded/fought as to why they did? -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 06:50 AM)
The name-calling, what is this, high school?
I answered your question, but you couldn't answer mine - nonetheless, the answer is clear: you believe the stuff that documented historical records demonstrate to be made up claptrap.
I'm not stupid, but you're clearly too immature, raw, emotional and uninterested in facts and truth to engage a rational, intellectual conversation. -
justanicknamed — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 08:38 AM)
The name-calling, what is this, high school?
No, because if you made it to high school and paid attention, you'd know that the Civil War was not fought about slavery.
The answer is clear, you are a moron who "thinks" he knows more than he really does, and tries to spew facts to support his BS. -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 09:35 AM)
I'll bet most people following this thread will be able to deduce who's what, based on the tone of our respective posts and contrasting capability to man up, answer questions asked or recognize when statements we made are BS or not without throwing hissy-fits and name-calling temper-tantrums.
Trying real hard to be the shepherd. -
justanicknamed — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 10:42 AM)
You are a simple minded, low-information dolt who only sees part of the picture and "thinks" they are intelligent.
Until you learn why the US Civil War was fought there is no reason to have any discussion with you. -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 10:58 AM)
Your IMDb posts reveal you to have zero credibility to make any such summations about my or anyone's intelligence, or contribute in good faith to rational, respectful discussion.
You are dismissed.
Trying real hard to be the shepherd. -
MovieMusings — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 08:26 PM)
I'll tell you what's funny about that. An NFL executive said that Trump may be good for the NFL. Know why? He said that America under Obama was too intellectual, cared too much about facts and truth, paid a lot of attention to the concussion issue and ratings fell. The people who voted for Trump, this executive argues, aren't intellectual, aren't interested in truth or facts; they're raw, emotional, and should that be great for ratings.
So, there are some people out there who do indeed consider "liberals" (Dems, lefties) to be "intelligent" ("intellectual", interested in truth/facts).
Trying real hard to be the shepherd.