Hi Filmmakers,
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Shop Talk Directors
Atomic_Filmmaker — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 01:23 AM)
Hi Filmmakers,
I'm launching a filmmaking book called: "Hollywood Hates This Book: The 7 Step Guide To Making Your Film For FREE" Features a foreword by Carlos Gallardo (El Mariachi, Desperado, Planet Terror) and has testimonials from these Hollywood legends:
www.hollywoodhates.com/testimonials
In the meantime, I've crafted an eBook for filmmakers entitled: "The 15 Secrets of Atomic Filmmaking" and have made it entirely FREE. You can download a copy here:
www.hollywoodhates.com/ebook
Thanks! -
firearms trainer — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 09:02 AM)
I'm launching a filmmaking book called: "Hollywood Hates This Book: The 7 Step Guide To Making Your Film For FREE" Features a foreword by Carlos Gallardo (El Mariachi, Desperado, Planet Terror) and has testimonials from these Hollywood legends: www.hollywoodhates.com/testimonials
In the meantime, I've crafted an eBook for filmmakers entitled: "The 15 Secrets of Atomic Filmmaking" and have made it entirely FREE. You can download a copy here: www.hollywoodhates.com/ebook
"Rules are for fools."
Seriously? You think this is a good testimonial to have associated with your book?
Rules keep people alive. Rules prevent people from getting hurt.
Care to tell us why your book is not just another in a LONG line of guerrilla filmmaking, rebel-without-a-clue books that advise filmmakers how to cut corners, screw other people, film without permits, don't pay for insurance and, incidentally, put their cast and crew in GREAT danger for the sake of making a crap 10-minute film that no one is ever going to watch besides family, friends, cast and crew. (Or at least the ones who haven't been hurt on the film and aren't sitting in a hospital bed somewhere wondering where the money is going to come from because some nobody once advised a filmmaker that they don't need to spend money on stupid things like permissions, permits and insurance.)
Care to address that?
People like you REALLY REALLY piss me off. I have devoted an entire career to keeping people safe on film sets, and all that is destroyed when some idiot tries to tell young filmmakers that they can cut corners.
You don't cut corners on safety. The phrase, "I couldn't afford it," is going to look really lame when you have to write it down on an accident report. Nobody should be injured or killed for the sake of making a movie. El Mariachi is a pretty poor poster child for filmmakers when it was done in a third-world country, with no safety procedures in place and lax workplace safety standards. They are just very very lucky nobody was killed in that film.
Maybe Hollywood isn't going to hate your book because it gives away some kind of "secrets" to low-budget filmmaking and how to make a feature film as good as Hollywood for no dollars. Maybe Hollywood is going to hate your book because it is going to get someone killed some day.
So, yes, there will be a LOT of Hollywood professionals who will be anticipating this book, and trust me on this one, if your advice is on how to cut corners, film without insurance or permits and put cast and crew in danger, you are going to be derided faster than the acting skills of Paris Hilton. -
archibald14 — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 12:34 PM)
I think you've totally missed the point of the approach. Nowhere it it written that the book is encouraging people to put their lives in danger or disregard regulations. The rules being referred to are not the safety rules type, they are rules regarding the creative process and the way the filmmaking should work. It's all about encouraging people to think of filmmaking in a different way. Focusing on the art and the self expression rather than on the technical, the budget and the rules you learn in film school.
The point is that anyone can make a great movie with very little means, because what really matters at the end of the day is the artistry and creativity put into a work. Just look at what Maya Deren did with her masterpiece Meshes of the Afternoon, with only herself as an actress and her husband as her only collaborator. People should stop worrying about getting the latest camera and expensive sets, instead they should search into themselves to discover their own film language and what it is they want to express. -
firearms trainer — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 03:13 PM)
I agree that there is nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong is posting testimonials that state "rules are for fools" and using El Mariachi as the poster child for making a Hollywood-class feature without the Hollywood-class budget.
El Mariachi was made because of third world labour and safety standards and the fact that he BADLY exploited his crew and got away with a lot that would never have been allowed in the U.S. He is very lucky no one got killed.
I am very very tired of nobodies out there telling filmmakers they don't need to spend money on permits, permissions or hiring the appropriate expertise. One of our colleagues was KILLED on a film set a couple of years ago because the producers, director and 1st AD lied to the crew; told them he had permission to be on a live railroad track and someone died because of it. That director is now in jail where he belongs.
Permits, permissions and expertise cost money. Anyone who says people can make a feature for zero dollars don't know what they are talking about, and they can put lives at risk.
It's not the creative process that says one should learn the rules and then find creative ways to "break" them that pisses me off; it is the attitude that rules are for fools. People read that, and think they can get away with cutting corners.
Fools kill people and spend time in jail where they belong. No filmmaker should be risking the safety and health of their cast and crew for the sake of making a movie. -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 02:14 PM)
El Mariachi was made because of third world labour and safety standards and the fact that he BADLY exploited his crew and got away with a lot that would never have been allowed in the U.S. He is very lucky no one got killed.
What also gets me is that people don't realize that the version of El Mariachi they see, and the one that RR tells that was made for $7K actually had 1 to 2 million dollars of post correction done to it to make it presentable.
One of our colleagues was KILLED on a film set a couple of years ago because the producers, director and 1st AD lied to the crew; told them he had permission to be on a live railroad track and someone died because of it. That director is now in jail where he belongs.
That was a terrible day in our business. Everybody knew that the director, producer and 1st AD were guilty as hell of criminal negligence. Unfortunately the director is out of jail, but hopefully nobody will work with him or his producer/wife ever again. She infamously stated in at a gathering before that project that "they make film on their own terms". Sarah Jones died because of this attitude.
But this attitude continues. Recently Werner Herzog (who I admire) said in an interview on Conan that he never asks permission, and filmmakers shouldn't ever ask permission, they should just go and shoot. While I understand the sentiment, It caused lots of controversy to the point that Sarah Jone's father asked for a meeting with Herzog to ask him to rethink his attitude.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
firearms trainer — 9 years ago(January 17, 2017 01:50 PM)
Every now and then we need a break from hammering on our heads and decide to slam our heads against brick walls for a change.
30 years in the film business, and safety standards are going DOWN now instead of up. Budgets are lower; crews are working longer hours for less money and people are suffering because of it.
But some of us never forget the love we have for this business, and how we want to pass on that love for the craft of filmmaking to a future generation.
Plus, we will NEVER let Brandon Lee, Jon-Erik Hexum or Sarah Jones be forgotten.
Never forget. Never again. -
Atomic_Filmmaker — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 07:17 AM)
Hi Guys,
Apologies for posting this and only getting back to the thread today.
I've carefully read through what you guys have said, and can I say that I think I actually agree with all of you. Perhaps not on everything, but on all the main points raised.
On Health and Safety.
My book explains the importance of health and safety, on release forms, permissions, having qualified people to perform specialist roles, risk assessments We cover it all.
I do consider those things to be critical, and you guys are right when you highlight the horrible errors and situations that have occurred in the past. I think books like mine actually stand to educate and enforce this, rather than dismiss it and hope people don't do it
However It doesn't neccessarily go hand in hand with "money". Archibald14 is absolutely correct with what he says. People are free to make the films they wish to make, and to creatively express themselves. My book isn't about making action films (nor is it about not making action films). I'm not encouraging people to dive from buildings onto buses Mariachi-style A film could be a single location with three characters talking, or it could be a comedy with forty characters in eighty scenes I'm also not telling people they have to make a film for nothing, but I am offering solutions as to how they can save money and think creatively to maximise their budget.
Where many of us work for a living in the film industry, there is a growing population of emerging talent who wish to make films, just to make films. Many of these guys will have better output by learning from this book. It also serves as a useful tool to more experienced filmmakers who wish to make a more traditional film that has it eyes on genuine distribution.
I don't want to ever discourage anyone, or tell someone they can't try to achieve something, based on background, circumstance or budget. But yes, I would never encourage people to do anything unsafe, see the earlier paragraph.
You can't get all of that into a title, but I'll do my best to get it on the book blurb and marketing once live.
On "El Mariachi" I know Carlos and I would dispute a lot of what has been said here. It's true that the film we see isn't the $7000 one that was shot, but Robert entirely covers this in his book. It's not skirted past. The majority of "Rebel Without a Crew" is his journey after the film has been shot.
My words now, not Carlos/Robert's, but there is no limit on what you can pay people. To think there is, is beep There is only an issue when you say you're offering one thing and then you go back on it or cheat. On a professional production, obviously there are businesses, minimum wages, unions and all sorts of considerations. However, it's not 1985 and there is a massive number of hobbiests and emerging filmmakers making films with pocket money. If they want to ask friends and local emerging actors to work with them, they're entirely able to. If they want to offer a limited amount, a future percentage, or nothing at all - good luck to them. As long as the other people involved know the score and it's all signed, that's fine.
A good analogy is professional sport. Here, in the UK, a top soccer player can earn $350,000 a week playing soccer. I also play soccer, for fun with friends. We pay to play. I'm not an elite soccer player, I never will be, but I enjoy it and am happy with this arrangement. This all applies to the above. It's only an issue when people are abused/cheated and I cover this throughly in my book.
On El Mariachi That cost $7000 to make, but it was an action film and it was shot on film. It did costs thousands to improve, but it wouldn't with today's tech. With modern equipment, tech and the internet, it's an entirely different game now. We will see more and more excellent indie product, but success wil also shift from being bought by Hollywood to also simply making a living doing what you love.
So, I actually agree with all of the key points raised above. I'd like to think I'm being a positive influence in re-enforcing them. The alternative is to just ignore these things and hope emerging filmmakers don't get things wrong.
Thanks,
Andy -
Atomic_Filmmaker — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 07:22 AM)
Dammit
The other thing was John (Ottman)'s quote.
Rules are for fools! Im glad theres a book stressing
the importance of following ones creative instincts
Come on now
He's obviously not referring to health and safety. It's a punchy creative quote he's written after reading the book. He even lends it to creative thinking here.
He's not saying that people should dodge health and safety on set any more than he's saying you should change your thoughts on traffic laws on the way to set and drive on the wrong side.
I've no issue with what John wrote, this is a guy at the top of two fields in Hollywood and edited "The Usual Suspects" for crying out loud. I've got enormous respect for the man and I'm just pleased he liked the book enough to promote it.
Not having a go, but I think looking into that the way we have a few posts ago is really pushing it -
firearms trainer — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 11:23 AM)
Andy, I agree with what you are saying. I am certainly the first person to tell filmmakers that, to become a filmmaker, one needs to make films. This is how one gains experience and learns from their earlier mistakes. Even if they start out just making films with friends, family or just their dog in their backyard, one learns by DOING, not by talking about it.
Books that serve to help potential filmmakers save time and money - and learn from OTHERS mistakes - are valuable tools.
Plus, I don't just talk the talk; I put my money where my mouth is by donating a huge portion of my time to new, young or emerging filmmakers to help them get the action scenes they want within the budget they have to work with. When not on the big sets, I am usually somewhere on a student film, working for little (and sometimes no) pay, just to support the industry, help educate new filmmakers and keep my friends and colleagues safe. Even after nearly 30 years in the film industry, I will work on films where their entire budget is less than we spend on doughnuts for the teamsters in one day on a Samuel L. Jackson movie.
Many of my professional colleagues will do the same, to support the industry and help new filmmakers with their projects. Plus, I am also a filmmaker, writer and producer myself, so I understand the emerging technology as well as the need to get a lot of help in making films within the budgets we have to work with.
BUT you can also understand the alarm bells that go off when people start talking about making films for no money. Some of our colleagues have died because of the attitude that corners can be cut, proper expertise does not need to be hired or permits and permissions are not always required. People have DIED in our profession because of that. So if some impressionable reader starts extrapolating what you are telling them about how to save money into also how to cut out the NECESSARY expenses, it puts us, our friends and our colleagues into danger.
I don't need to tell you how many times cast and crew came close to death when police responded to a student filmmaking project where filmmakers were waving fake guns around. It happens EVERY DAY.
THIS is why we get upset. Keep in mind this is not just guns; this applies to pyro, stunts, special effects, etc. I was not born yesterday. I know there are hundreds of Youtube videos on how to make your own squibs or do your own stunts. This type of activity is not acceptable, no matter what size the budget is. No one should die because someone wanted to make a movie.
Deal with that. Address THAT in your book. Then you can have our endorsement. -
Atomic_Filmmaker — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 02:20 PM)
Hey Dude,
Just in brief
I'm with you. I am.
This isn't a book ON Health and Safety. We cover idea development, writing, pre-production, production, post-production, marketing, distribution and more. We're talking detailed writing, lenses, working with actors hundreds of topics in detail.etc .etc
It covers Health and Safety and it's importance, in the same way it covers working with actors. It's obviously more important (H&S) but it's not a book
about
it. That said, it's of critical importance, in fact, I will even look over it again to ensure that comes through.
It's not a book FOR action films though, and I'm not selling it as such - but yeah, you speak a lot of truth in this last post, and it is a very important issue. AND, a lot of young people are focussing on action films/films with action/stunt elements. I'm definitely not in favour of that stuff, in fact I'd personally hire an expert of find a safe creative alternative.
It's not been my intention to bash you in any way, so I hope it didn't come across as such. I do agree fully with that underlying message, and you're obviously passionate about it. I think that's great. -
John-PaulJones — 9 years ago(January 22, 2017 02:28 PM)
I think that's wonderful, and the more we can get filmmakers out making films, the better off we all are. They are the future of our industry. Many of us could have even offered some advice on what to include in your book. We have all been there.
But you are essentially spamming a message board for industry professionals with an advertisement for your eBook, so if I were you, I would be VERY CAREFUL about who you are being condescending to.
you're obviously passionate about it. I think that's great. -
firearms trainer — 9 years ago(January 22, 2017 02:55 PM)
Sorry, but I didn't find it as condescending.
I think he is very passionate about HIS topic too.
But my advice still stands. New and impressionable young filmmakers should never start learning early that they can cut corners on safety, permits or permissions. NEVER minimize how we feel about the health and safety of our friends and colleagues, and how little we will tolerate it if we think filmmakers are putting our safety at risk in order to get their shot. It is a new world out there, and no one deserves to get hurt for the sake of a film. Budgets are getting lower, and people are being asked to do more for less. But the gravy train is over as far as health and safety is concerned. Some of us have devoted a career toward keeping people safe, and will now devote the rest of their career toward keeping the next generation safe. If I get labeled passionate, so be it. -
Atomic_Filmmaker — 9 years ago(January 23, 2017 12:56 AM)
The passionate comment was most definitely not meant as a slur or being patronising/condescending, it was meant at face value, and I am passionate about this too. Apologies if it came off as patronising, it wasn't the intent. I honestly think that Firearms Trainer is 100% right to emphasise the importance and make sure that I'm hitting it right. I think there's a balance, a zero-budget film with no resources is going to make a film regardless of book advice, but instead of running in front of cars, you shoot it to give the effect .etc
As for consulting everyone for content of the book The book has been read by three dozen industry professionals in different fields (production, acting, editing .etc) who I know and respect. I wanted to get my feedback from there primarily. I'm not sure if you can write a book properly by committee/forum. I did spend time discussing the content, to make sure we hit upon every key aspect: and Health and Safety is most definitely that. It'll be a 160ish page book though and that's a lot of content. You can't get all of that across on an IMDB forum, it has to be researched, written, edited and mastered professionally. I am fine with discussing it though, and until it goes to print in Feb, there's scope to change elements.