So underrated 'anti-western'!
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sexylikedexy — 21 years ago(January 19, 2005 01:24 PM)
mr scott,
i agree that this is one of the great "anti-westerns". You may think my opinion is somewhat undermined by the fact that i haven't seen it. However, I know someone who has seen it. He says it's good though he cannot always be trusted (the man don't like Eternal Sunshine and he can't get enough of Gigli). On a more serious note I still think Brando's best performance was in Streetcar Named Desire.
Your friend
Mr Sexy -
joekiddlouischama — 18 years ago(January 28, 2008 04:35 AM)
My wife thinks traditional westerns are mostly simplistic, reactionary, and corny (we agree to disagree). But she is quite fond of McCabe & Mrs. Miller, The Missouri Breaks, High Plains Drifter, and many of the others under discussion. And she loves Sergio Leone films. "So, you like westerns," I tell her.
Perhaps she prefers "revisionist" or "post-revisionist" Westerns, ones with a modernistic ethos and style. -
brucedgo — 12 years ago(September 26, 2013 09:13 PM)
"So, you like westerns," I tell her.
"No," she replies. "I just like good movies."
A woman after my own heart.
There are "genres" of movies I usually dislike e.g. low-budget horror but there isn't any genre that I mostly like. It's got to be good (re my own opinion).
and the rocks it pummels.- James Berardinelli
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joekiddlouischama — 18 years ago(January 28, 2008 04:50 AM)
But what exactly is an anti-western? Robert Altman used the term himself when he described his McCabe & Mrs. Miller. He called the film an "anti-western" because the film turns a number of Western conventions on their sides, " including male dominance and the heroic standoff; gunplay is a solution only after reputation, wit, and nonviolent coercion fail; and law and order do not always prevail." The point that often gets lost, in my opinion, is that many of these so-called anti-westerns show a deep and genuine respect for the genre that they are supposedly subverting. So, for some of us, they aren't killing the genre so much as they are breathing in new life.
I agree. The term "anti-Western" stems from individuals, such as Altman and any number of elitist critics, who don't like Westerns. But many "anti-Western" filmmakers, such as Leone and Eastwood, loved the genre and were merely offering non-traditional and less glorifying perspectives on the usual arrangements of elements. -
joekiddlouischama — 18 years ago(January 28, 2008 04:57 AM)
And that's why the genre died forever.
I actually think that the revisionists breathed new life into a static genre in the mid-to-late 1960s, thus granting it a second wind that lasted about a dozen years (1964-1976) in terms of theatrical release and deepened the Western's historical trajectory. -
cjwilkerson — 21 years ago(January 17, 2005 11:51 AM)
I viewed this program over and over this past weekend and wish I had taped it. It was excellent. It was serious with a touch of humor. The bad guys were not so bad, and yet they were. Hats off to Jack Nicholson. I wish a DVD version were available.
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teejay6682 — 21 years ago(January 18, 2005 12:50 AM)
i watched it again on amc a day or so ago. still love it. brando and nicholson are awesome in the movie. it's underrated. the chemistry between nicholson and the female lead was great. their scenes were very sexy even thought those no nudity. brando is just insane in that movie. there are scene of him doing weird stuff where you go "what the?"
spoilers
specific scenes i like: where brando and jack talk and he shoots the cabbage in his garden. i love how he describes his pistol "it's like a poem" then he gives the pistol to jack saying there's one bullet, trying to trick him into pointing it at him or something but he doesn't fall for it - "you're smart. farmers aren't smart" basically saying "i'm onto you"
or the scene right before he kills harry dean stanton off. he tells him with a geniunly warm smile "you're the last of your kind. if i was a better business man then i am a manhunter, i'd put you in a circus".
the abrupt killing of brando's character was so shocking the first time i saw it. i have to admit my interest in the movie wains after that, with the rest of the wrapup of the rest of the story but it's still a good movie. -
rrebenstorf — 21 years ago(January 19, 2005 12:30 PM)
The confrontation between Brando and Nicholson in the cabbage garden is a great, great scene. I love it when Brando says, "Try it, there's one left!" as he tosses the pistol to Nicholson. I love the way Nicholson says, "I doubt it," as he points the pistol to the ground, and it clicks when he pulls the trigger. Brando is daring Nicholson at the same time he's warning him. He taunts Nicholson with the idea that maybe he really has quit rustling in order to become a farmer. He wonders aloud if maybe Nicholson has "lost his nerve." "In which case," he smirks, "cabbages would be just the thing." Then Brando walks away in the sing-song taunt, "You've lost your nerve, you've lost your nerve "
I'm also quite fond of the shared cover story for the rustlers that they're in "the implement business." -
cengelm — 20 years ago(July 22, 2005 12:46 AM)
He taunts Nicholson with the idea that maybe he really has quit rustling in order to become a farmer. He wonders aloud if maybe Nicholson has "lost his nerve."
Most of what he says sounds important but is in fact trite. Like the story with the bats or
I'd like almost anythin' better 'n' bein' burnt up.
It creates a strange contrast when you know that the people around him are about to die. -
rrebenstorf — 20 years ago(July 23, 2005 08:13 AM)
I might merely be making a semantic point, but I think it is the other way around with Brando's dialogue: it sounds trite but is in fact important. With the "bats analogy," he is pretty much stating his philosophy of the lethal pursuit of his quarry of rustlers. His comment about liking "almost anythin' better 'n bein' burnt up" indicates that he doesn't buy Cal's story that Nicholson stayed in the burning cabin out of pride.
However, in an odd way, I think your comment about Brando's words is also true. Such a fascinating movie. -
cengelm — 20 years ago(July 25, 2005 09:40 AM)
His comment about liking "almost anythin' better 'n bein' burnt up" indicates that he doesn't buy Cal's story that Nicholson stayed in the burning cabin out of pride.
Well, seeing his next step - going to sleep carelessly and satisfied - we have to assume that he thinks that Nicholson is really burnt up. Nicholson being alive had nowhere to go and would certainly be dangerous. -
rrebenstorf — 20 years ago(July 25, 2005 06:30 PM)
Hmmm. Are we really forced to assume that Brando is resting out of the comfort of knowing that this particular job is complete? Perhaps we are also allowed to think that Brando rests easily because he has always been the hunter and never the hunted. Plus, he knows that Nicholson had already once before failed when he had Brando point blank. Robert E. Lee Clayton is nothing if not a confident man. In that way, he is a typical Western character.
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cengelm — 20 years ago(July 26, 2005 05:18 AM)
Plus, he knows that Nicholson had already once before failed when he had Brando point blank.
That's a good point. Nicholson's rage wasn't developed enough at that moment but that's something he couldn't know.
In general he didn't bother too much whatever he might have been thinking. Like every confident Western villain he bites the dust. -
pogglezig — 20 years ago(January 18, 2006 07:18 PM)
If you want "anti-hero" western, see Sergio Corbucci's Django and The Great Silence. In The Great Silence the lead character kills bounty killers(Ironic, eh?), carries a mauser, is a mute, and it all take place in snow-covered mountains. Django is like more violent, more offensive version of Fistful of Dollars. Similar story, except one group is a KKK-like clan and the other are Mexican banditos.
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Narrator_Jack_dot_com — 19 years ago(April 07, 2006 05:40 PM)
the establishment-style music is sometimes a little too overbearing in the film. Brando FINALLY appears 35 minutes in, and he's certainly the coolest actor in this. Also cool: the stylish lighting. Particularly in the funeral, everyone looks orange. I've just realized this is also the last of Brando's arguably classic era appearances (unless you want to count playing Superman's dad. I don't).