Merlin vs Gandalf
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deeveed — 13 years ago(June 08, 2012 09:11 AM)
The question is would he be able to realize Frodo's or Bilbo's ability to withstand the temptations of the Ring?
In light of what I think the character of Merlin I'd have the impression that he'd think there's no way that they could handle the ring and he'd "know better" than they. In fact, Merlin would have the audacity to want it for hismelf and do what he'd like with it. He'd take a different tack than Gandalf. -
WyldeGoose — 13 years ago(June 08, 2012 09:26 AM)
In light of what I think the character of Merlin I'd have the impression that he'd think there's no way that they could handle the ring and he'd "know better" than they. In fact, Merlin would have the audacity to want it for hismelf and do what he'd like with it. He'd take a different tack than Gandalf.
I disagree. One of the things both Merlin and Gandalf share is an awareness of the corrupting influence of Power. Merlin's foresight would tell him of what the Ring is for and who made it.
Why do you think Merlin doesn't abuse the power he has? Morganna uses the Charm of Making and abuses it, to make her abomination of a son Mordred. He understands that Power always has a cost, and some day the bill will come due in some way. -
Raylathotep — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 09:09 PM)
uhm.. I dont think I've ever seen a "vs" thread go for so long and still retain civility. The whole discussion here is fascinating and insightful. And just down right pleasant. A refreshing change from what I normally see here on imdb, or around the web in general.
Can YOU survive the zombi-pocalypse?
http://chooseyourstory.com/Story/Escape_from_the_Dead.aspx -
WyldeGoose — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 11:00 PM)
uhm.. I dont think I've ever seen a "vs" thread go for so long and still retain civility. The whole discussion here is fascinating and insightful. And just down right pleasant. A refreshing change from what I normally see here on imdb, or around the web in general.
Well, the reason for that, I believe, is probably due to the scant few who talk about these things who were taught how to think and were given a better education.
For myself, I think Gandalf and Merlin are basically the same characters for each story. They're both characters that have a near god-like understanding of their own limitations, and both have the humility to accept it. I merely choose Merlin over Gandalf mostly because of his ability to see into the future, which Gandalf doesn't seem to have (though, I could be wrong). And it seems to me that Merlin, or, at least Excalibur's version of Merlin, has a lot more going on in his head than Gandalf does. Not to say that Gandalf isn't smart, but Nicolson's performance was eccentric enough to show that Merlin is not really as relatable or even as likable as Gandalf, and that his foresight has made him a bit peevish.
Of the two men, who would you rather hang out with? Gandalf would drink an ale with you. Merlin would probably berate you for "drinking at a time like this!" -
Superchadman — 13 years ago(January 08, 2013 07:09 PM)
Merlin would win. I'm basing this on the tv programme Merlin, He tends to use his magic more and is inder rated in his powers, Gandalf rarely uses his powers and when he does its for a torch etc. Merlin seems to have a power for most things, plus he has a dragon and is immortal
'Thank You' Arthur. -
pol-edra — 13 years ago(January 27, 2013 11:29 PM)
How are Gandalf's fictional sources in any way related to a discussion about a fictitious encounter between two characters?
What would the internet be without "who'd you think would win?" threads? Next thing you'll point out that it doesn't make sense that lolcats can't spell
"
Occasionally
I'm callous and strange." -
deeveed — 13 years ago(February 04, 2013 08:28 AM)
hmmm.Would you think that even though they are 'alike" that there would be say differences in "character" between a Gandalf and a Merlin? Their decision-making in certain situations could arguably be different. Now just note that I am not completely versed in Tolkien's origin of Gandalf vs the origin of Merlin in the ancient texts. But I figure that these so-called "fictional" characters did have different upbringings and experiences!..;-)
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AfroGeek — 12 years ago(July 09, 2013 10:38 PM)
Merlin is more "believable." His power has a cost. Galdalf just pulls a rabbit out of his hat whenever the script calls for it and there's no feeling of consistency, limitation, responsibility, or cohesion with the rest of the Hobbit world IMO.
Amy
:
I swear to GodI swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human! -
Pierre_D — 12 years ago(December 01, 2013 09:51 AM)
Which Merlin are we talking about? The one that's a bad with an extensive amount of knowledge? The almost misanthropic one? The one we could find in some olden gamynge manuels (AD&D Deities & Demigods had him as knowing ALL spells and essentially able to time travel) or the fuddy duddy of some interpretations where he's a confused guy reverse time travelling?
Here's the thing, Merlin wasn't that guy that would pull a rabbit out of a hat, he was feared and reviled but at the same time sought out for his prophetic qualities. And he had an impressive amount of magic at his disposal, from being able to completely alter someone's physionimy ("polymorph") to creating blankets of mist to being menacing enough that even kings would heed him.
In some tales he's even seen as immortal. So yeah, top of the line.
On the other hand, Gandalf is on that scale influence-wise. But he also seems to have a
conscience
, whilst Merlin seems to act more for his own purposes.
This makes Merlin more
dangerous
since you never know whether he's using you or helping you. His shapeshifting ability could also severely impede anyone trying to advance any kid of agenda.
You can probably surmise that Gandalf has any amount of magical abilities at his disposal. He can wield swords (probably enchanted), has magic in the form of various pyrotechnics, is an astute diplomat and is essentially as old as the world.
That would put both of them about equal on the power scale and influence scale, so the question comes down to:
"Which do I prefer, the master wizard with his own dark agenda or the one whom I know I can count on to save the world?"
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hachmom-1 — 11 years ago(August 15, 2014 07:11 PM)
I say its a tie, because as one of the others noted, they are basically the same character. (Lets gets cosmic with it, what if Merlin is Gandalf in a later incarnation.)
If you want to get really cosmic about it, Nicol Williamson did an audio recording of The Hobbit (Listen to his Gandalf and you know right where his Merlin is coming from.)
So I say Williamson's Merlin and Williamson's Gandalf fight to a draw,
It is not our abilities that show who we truly areit is our choices -
magolding — 9 years ago(May 13, 2016 11:23 AM)
According to Tolkien, Gandalf's real name was Olorin and he was a Maiar, a lesser member of the Ainur, angel-like spirits created before the world was made.
Ainur have the power to create physical bodies for themselves to wear just as mortal men can make clothing for themselves. Thus Sauron still had a physical body in the era of Lord of the Rings despite having been killed at least two times in the Second Age.
About year 1000 of the third Age, more than 2,000 years before Lord of the Rings, at least three Maiar (often five, sometimes more) took on human bodies that they were bound into until their mission was completed, and sent to Middle-earth to aid and advise Elves, Men, Dwarves, and other good people against Sauron.
They were forbidden to use their full powers and might have had their innate Maiar powers reduced for the duration of the mission. So all of Gandalf's impressive "magical" feats were merely a shadow of what he could have done with his full powers.
After The War of the Ring, Gandalf returned to Valinor with Galadrial, Elrond, many Elves, and Bilbo and Frodo. Gandalf would have kept his mortal body as long as Bilbo and Frodo were alive, to keep them company, but would have returned to his spiritual form and his full powers afterwards. Sending of the
Istari
or wizards to Middle-earth was the last time the
Valar
ever interfered with the course of events in Middle-earth. So Gandalf would never return to what would become Europe.
According to Tolkien, this was at least 6,000 years ago or at least 4,000 BC, and certainly the shape of lands and seas changed between the era of
Lord of the Rings
and the dawn of recorded history.
Merlin lived in the era of King Arthur. According to the
Annales Cambriae
Arthur won the Battle of Baden in 516 or 517 or 518 AD and was killed at the Battle of Camlann in 537 or 538 or 539 AD. Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote that the Battle of Camlann was in 542 AD.
So Gandalf and Merlin could never meet, and (fortunately for Merlin) Gandalf would not fight Merlin no matter how evil he thought Merlin was, since it was no longer the role of Ainur to interfere with the destiny of Men.