AWFUL movie
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denise1234 — 13 years ago(February 09, 2013 08:41 PM)
I'm just going to tag on here, with my two cents, in response to many of the replies here (and not just to the OP's).
** THERE BE SPOILERS AHEAD **
Would've, should've, could'vepeople don't always act like we would, like what we would want, or how we think they should.
Showing imperfect people in movies is actually more realistic (and refreshing at times) than trying to show them as perfect people making perfect decisions. Life isnt perfect, and neither are we as we try to navigate experiences that come our way and the people with them.
There was quite a bit of time passing in this movieand, believe it or not, the older you get, the faster time does pass.
I guess they could have made this movie twice as long if some folks wanted more 'fleshing out' of the myriad characters presented in it, but 1) if some folks hate this movie so much already, I don't see why they would want 2 more hours of it, and 2) I don't think the intent was to focus on the satellite characters (Flap, Emma's best friend, etc.), but on the lives of Aurora and Emma, separately and together, and on their relationship, over time.
I don't know how anyone with any life experience could not find the ending sad.
Having lost a parent to cancer and caring for that parent until the end, the disease process seemed to take a long time, but when death finally arrived, it seemed that it came very fast too fast.
And, I also just lost a good friend to cancer: He died within two weeks of getting his diagnosis, so it doesn't always drag on.
It would be wrenching and devastating to have to have 'the talk' as a mother with one's young children, about leaving them so soon in their lives. That scene really gets to me. Emma was very brave in that scene, IMHO.
I've watched a love one die. Seeing Emma's last scene and the look on Aurora's face when we know that Emma just passed wow. I've been there and done that, and that scene really got to me.
Flap obviously didn't think he was 'cut out' truly to be a 'family man'. He wanted the prestige and freedom he thought he was entitled to as an academic, and he seemed to feel (whether true or not) that Emma was intellectually inferior to him. And, frankly, she was portrayed as somewhat of a 'slob'. He wanted to be with arm candy that was at least faux intellectual, with whom he could go to faculty get togethers, and with little other complication in his life. He loved his kids, but he didn't want to be saddled with the responsibility of day-to-day life with them. Probably better that they didn't go live with him.
Aurora was somewhat neurotic (when it came to her daughter) but I tell you: if I had been Emma in the hospital dying of cancer, Aurora is exactly the kind of person I would want advocating for me. She loved her daughter (and her grandkids) very, very much. But, she was a very strong woman and thought that firm love was the best. People may disagree with that, but just because she isn't presented as a mealy-mouthed, handwringing simp of a woman doesn't mean the character as drawn didn't love her daughter and grandkids with all her heart or that some of her logic and reasoning wasn't in fact correct.
I wish, though, that she hadn't been so hard on Flap from the very beginning. Whether well-intentioned or not and whether she could 'see through' Flap from the very beginning, in-laws who act like she did can cause a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Flap had ever been 'wavering' about whether to stay with Emma or not (I think if she hadn't gotten cancer that their days of marriage were probably numbered anyway), Aurora's hate for him could have been the deciding factor the straw that broke the camel's back for his leaving his family.
Bottom line: Although I didn't agree with all the decisions made by or actions of all the characters in this movie, I think it was a good film. And, I also think that it takes a few years living on this earth to 'get' some of the scenes and to have some feelings about them.
11/16/12: The day the Twinkie died
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cliff-hartle — 13 years ago(February 24, 2013 07:04 AM)
Yes it was awful. I came here today because I guess CBS Sunday Morning was doing an Oscar piece, the movie came up (remember it won 4 of the top 6 awards and nominated for 5) and my wife made a comment on how we remember how BAD it was.
We saw it the theater and PEOPLE WERE WALKING OUT after an hour or so. We thought about it too but stayed to the end.
We are wondering if its on Netflix instant view so we can look back and try to remember why we thought this way. -
sign543-6-320217 — 12 years ago(May 12, 2013 12:49 AM)
I don't know what film YOU watched, but your assessment is so far offfor some many reasonsit's not even worth addressing them point by point. It is painfully obvious by your post that you understood very little about this film and very little about the characters. This is one of the best drama/romantic comedies every madewith an exceptional, stellar class who all played their respective characters perfectly, IMO.
Oh, by the way, Flap isn't an unmotivated lousehe has at least a PhD for cripes sake. He IS a flake in almost every way except for his career. And is a terrible parent. -
dabukaba — 10 years ago(December 23, 2015 01:02 AM)
Very old thread but I'll respond anyway since it's still on here and people will still read it. Some points I want to make:
I think this movie is excellent.
I'm amazed by people that commented about the movie on here without even watching all of it how can you judge the finished product that way it's like judging a book by its cover, or by its first chapter. And this movie takes its time in making its points and developing its characters.
People dislike this movie because of the very negative things that happen in it. Guess what the world isn't all sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows. People make mistakes.
I think people don't like this movie because its so different from other dramas. When you watch other dramas it's obvious you're watching a movie, but when you watch this movie it's like you're watching real life, like they filmed their day-to-day lives. I know you're probably thinking I mean like a reality show but modern reality show in my honest opinion tend to go nowhere and not have much of a point to make. And then this movie DOES add other scenes that are much less subtle in their impact. But it has such a gritty realism about it (including in the acting styles). The farewell scene with the boys is part of what makes this movie so intense and impacting in its drama, but it's true that real life can be equally sad. In fact this movie is completely relatable to many people (off-topic but this is in spite of its '70s/early-'80s look in things like clothes and hair, and some aspects of course like the social divide between women's-lib-affected New Yorkers and other women, aspects which to me, also are interesting to see having a window into those times).
On Flap relinquishing the boys: It took a lot for him to come face-to-face with the fact that he had been an awful father and admit that. He wanted them to be happy. Do you think a father who spends not just days at work but nights too ("I fell asleep doing my work again") then comes back home in the morning after having spent every night with his student mistress really is an appropriate father for his kids, especially without their mother? -
sign543-6-320217 — 10 years ago(December 23, 2015 06:48 PM)
I think your contribution was spot on, timely, and perfectly stated. I love this film for all the reasons you stated. I love dramatic films that are very real to life, tackle real life, issues in a realistic ways, and especially when they use stellar actors in the parts. Script-wise, it doesn't get much better than this film. This film, in my opinion, is right up there with other films like Ordinary People, another fantastic film in the genre. Just a perfect film.
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LukeLovesFilm28 — 10 years ago(February 21, 2016 04:16 PM)
On Flap relinquishing the boys: It took a lot for him to come face-to-face with the fact that he had been an awful father and admit that. He wanted them to be happy. Do you think a father who spends not just days at work but nights too ("I fell asleep doing my work again") then comes back home in the morning after having spent every night with his student mistress really is an appropriate father for his kids, especially without their mother?
Again, it takes MONEY to support a family of 5. To earn that kind of money, a person has to put in the fcking hours. Jesus. This is a world full of overgrown children.
I guess all of these "liberated" mothers who put their kids in daycare while they're trying to make something of themselves in their careers are awful parents too.
Oh, wait. The same rules don't apply to mothers huh? -
dabukaba — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 11:08 AM)
On Flap relinquishing the boys: It took a lot for him to come face-to-face with the fact that he had been an awful father and admit that. He wanted them to be happy. Do you think a father who spends not just days at work but nights too ("I fell asleep doing my work again") then comes back home in the morning after having spent every night with his student mistress really is an appropriate father for his kids, especially without their mother?
Again, it takes MONEY to support a family of 5. To earn that kind of money, a person has to put in the fcking hours. Jesus. This is a world full of overgrown children.
I guess all of these "liberated" mothers who put their kids in daycare while they're trying to make something of themselves in their careers are awful parents too.
Oh, wait. The same rules don't apply to mothers huh?
But for a person to earn the money, they have to put in the hours WORKING, not IN BED with a mistress/lover. Flap wasn't spending nights out grading papers, he was spending those nights in bed with his student. (Of course it was equally wrong for his wife to cheat although the movie makes it clear that he was a COMPLETELY absentee father, not because of his work life but because his only concern in life was his mistress, and Emma says at one point "I'd hate to think I was doing this just to get even," which there was definitely some truth in.")
I'm honestly baffled by your logic. It's like you're saying that since he had to grade papers in his office, it's perfectly acceptable that he took longer every night because instead he spent the whole time sleeping with his student that's putting in the hours to "make money"? Not to mention that Flap selfishly because he hated his mother-in-law whom he knew perfectly well was so close with her daughter relocated her (and the kids) away from her mom to an entirely different state so he could keep having his affair with that student again, he put that young woman ahead of his family of 5 you're claiming he cared so much about.
Also I'm not a mother, I'm a young single guy. It has nothing to do with gender, bottom line is if a person is going to work to support his/her family, then they should come home to their family, too I don't mean necessarily every minute spent out of the workplace must be at home of course, but you know what I mean, don't just drop in once in a while and think that's being a mother or father and if a parent would rather spend all their free time in bed with another lover then why marry and have kids in the first place, and keep having kids Aurora was correct in her initial evaluation of Flap when Emma didn't want to hear it. -
winepooh96 — 10 years ago(February 07, 2016 10:41 PM)
I was very young when this came out and I absolutely love it. There is no need for everything to be spelled out for the audience. This movie was very easy to infer. Aurora was right about Flap. Like she said at the beginning, he had no ambition, which is why they stayed poor. Emma was young and idealistic like many people are when they marry. However, the realities of marriage and motherhood coupled with financial responsibilities/struggles often change that idealistic view. As for why he didn't take the kids, he had a new young girlfriend and seemed to always be an absentee dad. Watch the scene when Emma comes back from Houston, within a few minutes he handed the baby back to her. To me it seemed clear that with Emma gone, he could be free and unattached with the gf. Anyway, in the end the movie was about a mother and daughter, so Flap's character wasn't going to be super in depth.
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FlickerArt — 10 years ago(February 08, 2016 10:20 AM)
I just caught this movie for the first time last night and I agree. I can't believe this was "the best picture" of 1983. I wasn't born when this came out but I found that this was just a vehicle for Shirley MacLaine, Debra Winger and Jack Nicholson. I think one or two of them won Academy Awards for this piece of crap.
There was a time during the 1980s where the George Lucas/Steven Spielberg action/adventure films were 1000 times better quality than these dramas. This is coming from a person who doesn't care for the "comic super hero" genre that has taken over Hollywood the last 15 years or so.
Other films that are also ultra sappy that came out of that era were Fried Green Tomatoes, Steel Magnolias and Driving Miss Daisy. All these films gave "chick flick" the bad connotation it has now and will probably forever have.
"Adding sound to movies would be like putting lipstick on the Venus de Milo."-MaryPickford -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 10 years ago(February 21, 2016 04:07 PM)
Classic case of "telling", not "showing" us these people. Absolutely ridiculous movie that is truely one of the worst I have ever seen.
Then, it's a GREAT chick flick. Most women like to simply make ugly assumptions about men. Men could never possibly have it worse so there is no point in hearing why the do the things they do. -
rascal67 — 9 years ago(June 03, 2016 03:01 PM)
NO, it is not an AWFUL movie, however I can understand some of your criticism regarding the likeability factor of the characters and some of the motives. However, I think the film-makers knew this, and what you appear to have missed and what melds it all together, is the humor infused throughout the film. A 2hr 10min movie can only show so much about the lives of these characters, which spans
albeit quickly, but I think successfully
a few decades. The top notch cast and the excellent performances they gave made it work for me, and I find Emma's deathbed scenes some of the most moving I have ever seen.
The film touches on an interesting mother\daughter relationship, and how the mother was always being intrusive in her daughter's life right from the start. In spite of Emma's frustration with Aurora, they were also best friends and this is where I feel the human connection and heart of the film stems from.
Why don't you try ORDINARY PEOPLE-80' if not already seen, which also won picture. This touches on an interesting mother\son relationship.
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