Found Ron to be a bit annoying and self centered!!
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degree7 — 12 years ago(February 07, 2014 05:27 PM)
Take a look kids, at this loathesome some species known as the internet warrior. Quite nasty and vicious up close, but if you keep your distance, their venom shouldn't be able to reach you.
Lucky for society they have trouble breeding. Scientists are currently working on phasing this species out of the gene pool.
Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness. -
dcram76 — 10 years ago(February 09, 2016 11:23 PM)
In terms of Tom Cruise's method acting. I know someone who met Tom Cruise when she was a pre-teen. He turned her down for an autograph. I heard other reports that he was an asswipe. I am going to read the book that Ron Kovic wrote to see what really happened. However, the main thing I disagreed with during the Vietnam scenes were the final battle when Kovic gets shot. If it were me, I would've pinned down and stayed down. Kovic did however mention later to his friend Timmy that he was stupid to try and be a John Wayne in that scene.
The scene where he shot his own guy was a bit more controversial though. Kovic and his squad were under heavy fire from the NVA and running like hell back to the beach and shooting anything that was behind them. The guy that he accidentally shot came up from the side and looked like he was charging at him. I put another post on this board about this particular scene. If I were Kovic during that scene, I would've had the expectation that Wilson would've warned the guys with his hands up yelling "Don't Shoot." I'll need to watch the movie again but that's what I saw last time. -
avortac — 10 years ago(September 06, 2015 07:10 PM)
"Being put in a wheelchair was his punishment for being a terrible soldier and killing his own. "
Really?
A punishment?
From whom? Do you mean the Vietnamese man, who shot him, thought: "Oh boy, that guy killed 'his own', so I better put him in a wheelchair with a well-aimed spine nervous-system shot!"?
Or do you mean that the UNIVERSE is partial?
Are you saying that some higher force takes SIDES in a war, and thinks: "Oh, he's just killing a vietnamese, so it's ok, let's not put him in a wheelchair. What? He killed an AMERICAN? Wheelchair for the rest of his life! That's his punishment for killing a scared aryan american white-skinned precious man, instead of some slanted-eyes, vietnamese, dark-skinned, black-haired monster!"?
REALLY? SERIOUSLY?
You actually believe that??
That kind of thinking is sicker than anything shown in the movie. And you are the most hypocrite of them all, if you really think that it's OK to kill Vietnamese (= no punishment), but it's NOT OK to kill Americans (= wheelchair punishment).
How can you even think this? Why don't you realize that all human life is equal in worth? It's born out of divine source, so it's equally 'valuable'.
You can't seriously think that the Universe takes sides, like that.
OR, the stupidest alternative of them all;
You think there are some kind of 'rules of engagement' that the Universe enforces, and if anyone breaks those rules, they deserve a lifelong punishment?
As in, if Vietnamese kill Americans, it's OK.
If Americans kill Vietnamese, that'd be OK, too.
But if Vietnamese kills Vietnamese (one of their own), that's PUNISHABLE by ending up in a wheelchair for his whole life.
And if an American kills American (one of their own), that's PUNISHABLE by ending up in a wheelchair for his wholfe life.
What kind of entity or force in the Universe decides these things, and accepts thse HUMAN-MADE ARBITRARY RULES FOR MURDERING so the wealthy elite families of the planet can get richer (by financing both/all sides in any given war)?
By the way, why weren't women being forced to murder their other-country sisters the same way men were forced to murder their other-country brothers? Weren't they already 'equal' in the sixties?
Oh, right. Forgot. Equality is just another name for 'misandristic, man-sacrificing female supremacy, safety and comfort'.. men do all the murdering and dying, plus all the hard work in the world, while women are safely at home, shopping and choosing curtain colors, and then use men-built computers to btch about their beta-bucks husband not being helpful with those decisions.
Your post is on the level of the most lunatic feminazi ravings that I have ever seen.
And believe me, I have seen some that would chill the blood of even the most shell-shocked murderer (why use euphemisms, like 'veteran'?).
So, you are either ignorant, intellectually challenged, brainwashed, duped, indoctrinated, conditioned or all this. People like you should wake up and count 1+1 and see that it really makes 2, and not 3, like you have been told.
In essence, what you are saying that you as a father would completely agree to your children's 'rules of engagement', and enforce them by punishing either kid, if it kills its own side's brothers, but not do anything, if your kids diligently murder each other? REALLY?
Your 'punishment' theory is now completely abolished. Care to apologize and admit being wrong, or revise your life-hostile, human-hating and completely illogical theory? -
Citation_Needed — 10 years ago(September 06, 2015 09:14 PM)
Okay, I roped in a total retard in need of schooling
How can you even think this? Why don't you realize that all human life is equal in worth? It's born out of divine source, so it's equally 'valuable'.
No it's not. Are you baby or something? What are you twelve? Has no one broke the news to you about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too?
You think there are some kind of 'rules of engagement' that the Universe enforces, and if anyone breaks those rules, they deserve a lifelong punishment?
Since you're a fool who believes in "divine sources" maybe you can relate to the term Karma you dunce. But in reality, it's just the balance that the universe preserves on it's own, without a need for divine intervention. I don't have the time to teach you science because, judging by your intelligence, you have zero foundation to grasp even the simplest principles of it.
if you really think that it's OK to kill Vietnamese (= no punishment), but it's NOT OK to kill Americans (= wheelchair punishment).
Vietnamese knew the risks and were willing to put themselves in harms way to fight for their beliefs against others. Americans did too, but not risks from each other. You might not understand the difference because your mind is so simple. You can't grasp these little subtleties. That's why your dumbass equates the two to be equal scenarios when they are not
And there is a punishment for killing Vietnamese. Go to any VA hospital and you'll see. They all don't get put in wheelchairs you retard.
Weren't they already 'equal' in the sixties?
Yeah, women stood up for equality in the 60s, and it happened instantly. You're a genius! HAHAHAHA You should teach a women studies course at Harvard. It'd be the shortest class ever.
Your post is on the level of the most lunatic feminazi ravings that I have ever seen.
That's a compliment from someone as ignorant and deranged as you.
So, you are either ignorant, intellectually challenged, brainwashed, duped, indoctrinated, conditioned or all this. People like you should wake up and count 1+1 and see that it really makes 2, and not 3, like you have been told.
Clear projection since you've proven how stupid you are and can't come to terms with it, so you're projecting your failings as a human, or in your case subhuman, on to me.
In essence, what you are saying that you as a father would completely agree to your children's 'rules of engagement', and enforce them by punishing either kid, if it kills its own side's brothers, but not do anything, if your kids diligently murder each other? REALLY?
In essence, these are the ramblings of a confused idiot and warrant no real response.
Your 'punishment' theory is now completely abolished. Care to apologize and admit being wrong, or revise your life-hostile, human-hating and completely illogical theory?
Yes, clearly you validated your opinion and backed it up with logic and intelligence
Pat yourself on the back for this one! hahahahah What a delusional fool. -
spookyrat1 — 11 years ago(August 09, 2014 03:37 AM)
I found him incredibly annoying and very self centered.
Could that possibly have any thing to do with the film being based on an
autobiography
, which I don't believe sets out to paint him as a saint or hero? -
dellascott2004 — 10 years ago(May 10, 2015 02:31 PM)
I haven't read the book, but my guess is that his really difficult periodquarreling with family members, going to Mexico, etc., was as much about adjustment to his disability as anything. People who have had similar injuries from crimes, car accidents, mountain climbing, etc.go through similar stages as they come to terms(or don't) with huge life changes and trauma. It's similar to the stages of griefdenial, bargaining, anger, etc.
"I didn't betray youI simply put a stop to you." -
degree7 — 9 years ago(October 01, 2016 02:08 PM)
It wasn't so much the fact that he was just crippled; if Ron had been in an accident and been paralyzed that way, it wouldn't have been quite so bad for him. The problem wasn't even so much that he suffered PTSD from having killed women and children in the war, or shooting and killing a fellow soldier. The issue was that when he came back, everything he believed in, everything that was instilled into him by his parents, his community, and the government, was shown to be false after he went to war. When he came back damaged and those institutions turned their backs on him, he knew that all the values he held dear were now meaningless, and he had essentially gone and sacrificed his mind and body for absolutely nothing. So it wasn't even the physical or psychological damage he suffered, but it was the complete obliteration of the identity he once had, and found himself completely lost. Ron finds himself in a dark place, and only by going there does he experience renewal and see that life can go on despite tragedy. So what the film says is its okay to be "whiney" and "self-centered," because questioning the "unquestionable" core ideas and values, such as patriotism and duty, can set us on the path to becoming more enlightened beings. Courage in the face of adversity allows us to become better people in the end.
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here. -
Citation_Needed — 9 years ago(January 09, 2017 11:11 PM)
The issue was that when he came back, everything he believed in, everything that was instilled into him by his parents, his community, and the government, was shown to be false after he went to war.
It wasn't false. He went into the war under false pretense. He thought just putting on a uniform was enough to come back and be treated like a hero. It don't work that way. You get a heroes welcome when you fight and WIN for a just cause.
If you're some loser who gets crippled in the losing battle in a lost cause because you're too stupid to take cover, you suck and get no sympathy. This country loves winners. You take out the Nazis and you come home a hero, a winner. There is really no comparison and thinking just being an American soldier is enough to get the same treatment is completely stupid and shown throughout the movie. Ron was an idiot and every perception he had was completely wrong.
When he didn't get the attention he thought he was entitled to, he quickly changed his tune to get another kind of attention because he's so self absorbed and self centered. He literally thought that fighting for his country gave him the right to tell people to leave the country if they didn't share his stupid opinion and live a life of the worthless platitudes he believed in.
Then when no one bought that crap, he rattled a new tune in hopes to get the reaction he always wanted. He was a glory hound and attention seeker. Loudly complaining in a pool hall just for attention and sympathy. That's all he was after. A loud mouth, self entitled, whiny bitch without a piss to pot in because everything he did was bullshyt hypocrisy. -
degree7 — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 01:43 AM)
It wasn't false. He went into the war under false pretense. He thought just putting on a uniform was enough to come back and be treated like a hero. It don't work that way. You get a heroes welcome when you fight and WIN for a just cause
This proves the point, Ron was led to believe he would be treated like a hero when he came back, but was instead vilified for what he represented.
There is really no comparison and thinking just being an American soldier is enough to get the same treatment is completely stupid and shown throughout the movie. Ron was an idiot and every perception he had was completely wrong
Ron can be excused for not taking cover and being wounded in the process, he was after all suffering the double blow of having killed women and children as well as one of his own men. Ron was probably wanting to prove to himself that what he signed up for was still worth fighting for, but it ended up biting him in the arse even worse.
he quickly changed his tune to get another kind of attention because he's so self absorbed and self centered
Well I think that's a little unfair of a judgement, he just wanted to be treated like a human being and not treated like beep by his friends and family. Being paralyzed from the waste down certainly isn't no great shakes, and at the end of the day you don't know how you would react to that kind of situation. Being able to never walk or have sex again is a bit of a downer, no? His emotional outbursts were really just cried for help, or as another poster eloquently put,was his adjusting phase to his trauma. You know, five stages of grief and all that. But yes, the pool hall moment was a necessary wake up call for Ron, and it taught him to stop being a victim and to become proactive about his situation.
He was a glory hound and attention seeker
Certainly at the start, which is what allows him to become manipulated so easily by his mother and the marine corps, but by the end he is a wise and inspirational figure for all people faced with tragedy. To go from a wheelchair bound, depressed vet, to an activist and author of a best-selling book/Oscar winning film is more than most people will ever dream of. Go Ron!
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here. -
Citation_Needed — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 05:12 AM)
No. Another case of wanting his cake and eating it too.
You can't demand people admire and respect you for fighting for your country, and then you yourself are ashamed of killing women and children and a fellow marine.
If you fight bravely you get the rewards. Not any other way. He didn't. End of story.
And those cries for help are completely unfair for everyone else. What the fuq are they supposed to do? Make him walk again and get him erect? There is nothing that can be done, so drop it, and either kill yourself to stop burdening everyone around you or quit wallowing in misery and be happy you survived. Pick one because no one is going to help fix those problems because THEY CAN'T.
Clamoring for attention and trying to make things a bigger deal than they are, aren't going to fix his legs or PENIS! That's why there are so many more Vietnam movies than there are WWII movies, because these whiny babies came home and felt they didn't get enough respect, so now everyone has to hear about their hard times until it's overkill.
Sorry Oliver Stone, that there wasn't enough media coverage of your brutal battles. So now you have to exaggerate everything to get some fricken attention and get treated like the war heroes from WWII? Is that what these wars are about? Military entitlement? What do they want? Free blow jobs for life when they return? I thought it was their duty to serve. I thought they did it for their country, yet as soon as they come back, it's all about them and what they "deserve."
These impressionable teens saw some propaganda News Reels during some movies in the 50s and expected the same? No, you were fooled by that and a recruiter so you're a moron for believing that crap. You deserve what you get for being a sucker. The movie made that perfectly clear with Levine's character and even the marine in the pool hall. Man up and accept the fact you were stupid, you lost, and you sucked and move on. Stop trying to blame everyone but yourself. So many people in this country are sick of that mentality.
And that's why there are topics about how the character (because most of what happens isn't true) Ron Kovic is a whiny bitch who doesn't know his ass from his elbow and will say whatever garners him the most attention. People see right through him in this movie. He should be pissed they made him into such a fool, who made nothing but wrong decisions over and over. -
degree7 — 9 years ago(January 21, 2017 05:02 PM)
No. Another case of wanting his cake and eating it too.
That's more applicable to the American public. You can't send troops off to fight a war and then treat them terribly when they come back just because they fought in an unpopular conflict.
You can't demand people admire and respect you for fighting for your country,
Ron just wanted to be "treated like a human being" and for people to stop looking at him like he was a freak. Anyway, why are the two mutually exclusive?
What the fuq are they supposed to do? Make him walk again and get him erect? There is nothing that can be done, so drop it
Actually there was, as by the end of the film he makes a good recovery, not physically but emotionally and spiritually. What he needed was support and direction in his life, which he wasn't getting at home. Of his entire family, it was his dad who gave him the best advice.
and either kill yourself to stop burdening everyone around you or quit wallowing in misery and be happy you survived.
A little harsh to tell someone suffering from PTSD.
That's why there are so many more Vietnam movies than there are WWII movies, because these whiny babies came home and felt they didn't get enough respect, so now everyone has to hear about their hard times until it's overkill
It's not that they didn't get some kind of authoritative "respect", it's that they were treated like scapegoats for the various social and political issues that were occurring at the time. And the change in the cinematic landscape of the 60s and 70s allowed for more raw, honest depictions of the treatment veterans received after returning from war that was universally reviled.
? Military entitlement? What do they want? Free blow jobs for life when they return? I thought it was their duty to serve. I thought they did it for their country, yet as soon as they come back, it's all about them and what they "deserve
Their motives are much simpler. They wanted to have access to proper medical coverage and financial benefits to help them. In Oliver Stone's case, they also wanted to prevent them same thing happening to the next generation. Soldiers in the US have had a long history of being treated poorly by the government. There's a reason the homelessness and suicide rates for veterans are rather high.
Stop trying to blame everyone but yourself. So many people in this country are sick of that mentality
It's not like he was brainwashed from childhood by propaganda and farcical rhetoric from his family and community into going to Vietnam in the first place, riiiiight?
Ron Kovic is a whiny bitch who doesn't know his ass from his elbow and will say whatever garners him the most attention
XD yeah the "whiny bitch" with a best selling book and net worth of over 1 million. I'm sure he's doing just fine now.
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.