Black Confederates ????????
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dannieboy20906 — 9 years ago(May 29, 2016 07:04 PM)
Keep in mind that once you say that A = B, you have also said that B = A.
In other words, without disagreeing with you and the essential evil of owning another person, some slave owners must have been more evil than others, and therefor some must have been less evil than others.
Good people sometimes perform evil acts and even the most evil people sometimes perform good acts. It is difficult for me to think of anything that Stalin or Hitler did that is good. Hitler seems to have loved his dog, but I think he poisoned her to test the cyanide pill he was about to give Eva.
Nevertheless, I cling to Yin and Yang. Even slave holders must have been less than pure evil.
The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank. -
activista — 10 years ago(February 05, 2016 11:59 PM)
@guyinwesthouston
And let's not forget there were Black slave owners and traders as well. Let the liberals play a race card on that one.
What the hell do you mean by "playing the race card"? Fck that stupid "race card" s***,there is no such fckn thing. Race is not a fckn game anyone playsit's always been a very REAL problem and always has been for people of color. And were a very small number of black slave owners, and the "slaves" they owned were actually their own family members whom they bought out of slavery so that they could stay together. White folks always like throwing that fact about black slave owners up as if it justifies your white ancestors having enslaved us in the first place, and as a way to deflect from those same ancestors having been slavemasters. Newsflashno it fckn dosen't justify a damn thing that was done to my ancestors, so fck off with that bull****.
Also, none of these Black Confederates were ever allowed to see battle,and they certainly were never near anywhere enough to claim that they supported the Civil War-the majority of slaves wanted to get the fck of the South and fight for the Union, not the Confederacy that wanted to keep them enslaved. So really, the whole "Black Confederates" thing is just some straws these Sons of the Confederacy have grasped to claim that there were black slaves on their sidesyeah, right,that's really stretching it. -
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ballston54 — 14 years ago(April 27, 2011 03:16 PM)
And just how many of these guys were there compared to the tens of thousands who fought for the Union? The African-American troops fighting for the U.S. have monuments, such as that at Petersburg, outside Richmond, for the black Pennsylvania unit that launched the initial assault on the Confederate fortifications, and the famous one to the 54th Massachussetts in Washington, DC. I've seen them both and maybe others have too on this thread. Where are the monuments to any black confederates?
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NoahBody — 14 years ago(October 05, 2011 11:13 AM)
And just how many of these guys were there compared to the tens of thousands who fought for the Union?
Where are the monuments to any black confederates?
This is a fallacy called Moving the goal post. Your side lost the original debate, so you attempt to change (move the goal) the debate. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 14 years ago(May 31, 2011 06:05 PM)
There were attempts to organize black regiments at various times, but until the final months of the war the Confederate government vetoed this. A Louisiana militia regiment was organized entirely of blacks early in the war, but once Richmond heard about it they ordered it disbanded immediately. Supposedly there was a company of Virginia blacks who served with Lee in the final days of the war but they never saw combat.
There were cases of individual blacks fighting with the Confederates, but these were few and far between. Unless you count slaves conscripted to build fortifications, dig trenches, etc. which isn't exactly voluntary. Certainly compared to the 180,000+ blacks who fought with the Union army, they were a negligible factor in the war.
Two reasons why slaves might have initially supported the Confederacy. One, simple patriotism: they probably shared their master's view of an outside threat to their country and rallied around the Confederate flag. Keep in mind that slaves had served in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 too. Two, because the Union government did not make the war overtly anti-slavery until September 1862, so the alternative initially wasn't necessarily better. On the other hand, after Union troops began to occupy the South, and certainly after the Proclamation, most slaves lost any loyalty to their masters and home states, whether or not they openly rebelled or took up arms.
"That's what the elves call Justice of the Unicorn!" -
NoahBody — 14 years ago(October 05, 2011 11:21 AM)
There were attempts to organize black regiments at various times, but until the final months of the war the Confederate government vetoed this. A Louisiana militia regiment was organized entirely of blacks early in the war, but once Richmond heard about it they ordered it disbanded immediately. Supposedly there was a company of Virginia blacks who served with Lee in the final days of the war but they never saw combat.
ehem
Noted Examples:- The "Richmond Howitzers" were partially manned by black militiamen. They saw action at 1st Manassas (or 1st Battle of Bull Run) where they operated battery no. 2. In addition two black regiments, one free and one slave, participated in the battle on behalf of the South. Many colored people were killed in the action, recorded John Parker, a former slave.
- At least one Black Confederate was a
non-commissioned officer. James Washington, Co. D 35th Texas Cavalry, Confederate States Army, became its 3rd Sergeant. Higher ranking black commissioned officers served in militia units
, but this was on the State militia level (Louisiana) and not in the regular C.S. Army. - Free
black musicians, cooks,
soldiers
and teamsters earned the same pay as white confederate privates
. This was not the case in the Union army where blacks did not receive equal pay. At the Confederate Buffalo Forge in Rockbridge County, Virginia,
skilled black workers "earned on average three times the wages of white Confederate soldiers and more than most Confederate army officers
($350- $600 a year). - Dr. Lewis Steiner, Chief Inspector of the United States Sanitary Commission while observing Gen. "Stonewall" Jackson's occupation of Frederick, Maryland, in 1862: "Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number [Confederate troops]. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks.
Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc..and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army."
Frederick Douglas reported, There are at the present moment many Colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but real soldiers, having musket on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down any loyal troops and do all that soldiers may do
to destroy the Federal government and build up that of therebels.
6. Black and white militiamen returned heavy fire on Union troops at the Battle of Griswoldsville (near Macon, GA). Approximately 600 boys and elderly men were killed in this skirmish.
7. In 1864, President Jefferson Davis approved a plan that proposed the emancipation of slaves, in return for the official recognition of the Confederacy by Britain and France. France showed interest but Britain refused.
8.
The Jackson Battalion included two companies of black soldiers. They saw combat at Petersburg under Col. Shipp.
"My men acted with utmost promptness and goodwillAllow me to state sir that they behaved in an extraordinary acceptable manner."
9. Recently the National Park Service, with a recent discovery, recognized that blacks were asked to help defend the city of Petersburg, Virginia and were offered their freedom if they did so. Regardless of their official classification, black Americans performed support functions that in today's army many would be classified as official military service. The successes of white Confederate troops in battle, could only have been achieved with the support these loyal black Southerners.
10. Confederate General John B. Gordon (Army of Northern Virginia) reported that all of his troops were in favor of Colored troops and that its adoption would have greatly encouraged the army.
Gen. Lee was anxious to receive regiments of black soldiers.
The Richmond Sentinel reported on 24 Mar 1864, Nonewill deny that our servants are more worthy of respect than the motley hordes which come against us. Bad faith [to black Confederates] must be avoided as an indelible dishonor.
11. In March 1865, Judah P. Benjamin, Confederate Secretary Of State, promised freedom for blacks who served from the State of Virginia. Authority for this was finally received from the State of Virginia and on April 1st 1865, $100 bounties were offered to black soldiers. Benjamin exclaimed, Let us say to every Negro who wants to go into the ranks, go and fight, and you are freeFight for your masters and you shall have your freedom. Confederate Officers were ordered to treat them humanely and protect them from "injustice and oppression".
12. A quota was set for 300,000 black soldiers for the Confederate States Colored Troops.
83% of Richmond's male slave population volunteered for duty
. A special ball was held in Richmond to raise money for uniforms for these men. Before Richmond fell, black Confederates in gray uni -
digitaldiva — 14 years ago(October 11, 2011 08:51 PM)
Hi NoahBody,
In the newest episode of the PBS television show, History Detectives, broadcast a fascinating story about Black Confederates based on the Chandler Family tintype that had been shown on the Antiques Roadshow. While it makes it clear that very few black actually carried arms for the Confederacy, I think you'll find it interesting. -
mspibb — 14 years ago(October 30, 2011 10:19 AM)
Your article is certainly full of good examples of individual (and also multiple) incidents of colored men participating in the war however, the bottom line is not until the very end of the war when manpower and hope was at it's lowest "Authority for this was finally received from the State of Virginia and on April 1st 1865" did the Confederate Government authorize the formation of black regiments.
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IronBrig4 — 14 years ago(January 23, 2012 04:34 AM)
That's just neo-Confederate propaganda, my friend. It's something you must be very careful to avoid. Most of your claims take place in 1864 or beyond, when the South was scraping the bottom of the barrel for manpower. A deathbed conversion if there ever was one. Yes, there were some blacks who fought for the rebels. Yes, there were certainly a lot of black laborers who performed duties around camp. No, the rebel government never seriously considered equipping large numbers of black soldiers until the end of the war. Regarding the book "Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees," the author himself admits that only approximately 300 blacks in Virginia received compensation for their services, out of 500,000 total blacks in the state. He goes further to state that there were far more Virginia blacks who were willing to support the Union, and that black Confederates were a minority within a minority. I also have access to reviews from professional historians, and their reviews are largely unfavorable. Here's a bit from Dr. Steven Miller of the University of Maryland. Source: The Journal of American History, June 1996.
"Attempting to restore Afro-Confederates to the historical stage, Jordan overcorrects, assigning marginal bit players to the role of principals. Much of his case rests on anecdotal evidence, to which he gives a less skeptical reading than it deserves. He is unduly inclined to regard public avowals of Confederate patriotism by black people as sincere and voluntary acts and to downplay the coercion and terror that shaped their response to a war to preserve slavery."
And if you're using the SCV to back up your sources, I'd seriously re-examine them and use a real book. You might as well be using Stormfront sources for commenting on a movie about World War Two. The SCV used to simply be a heritage organization like Daughters of the American Revolution, but now it's just a club for deluded Lost Causers.
Furthermore, black Union soldiers were eventually given equal pay. It took until summer of 1864 but it was done. The rebels' official policy towards captured black soldiers was also atrocious and reflected their attitudes toward blacks in general. -
jaynekranc — 13 years ago(August 02, 2012 09:22 PM)
How did I miss this fabulous post?
Black Confederate soldiers were also mentioned in Ken Burns Civil War Series. I just watched it again with my daughter, who had it on a list of things to watch before starting her US History class.